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A good question. I don't believe in the Holy Trinity so it is easy for me to understand. Jesus was a prophet and the main character in the greatest story ever told. One of the Ten Commandments forbids worshiping another God, which I believe is what has happened with Jesus. Those with God in their heart do not need to see a man in the flesh representing God to know of his existence. God is the power and the energy of the universe and you can feel Him in your heart and soul with no need for sermons, churches, books or a man appearing on earth as a part of the Trinity. One God.
Interesting responses. From a wide range of beliefs or viewpoints and none seem to buy into the incarnated God idea -which at least used to be the basic belief of Christianity - that Jesus was God incarnated.
But then (and I have in mind the 'what is a christian' threads) can one be a Christian simply through Faith in Jesus' resurrection? Can one be a christian simply through admiring his teachings? It seems that many posters here seem to think so, and seem to be at some disagreement with the doctrines of the established churches.
However, let me pick up your post, Eusebius.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
You bring up some good points AREQUIPA. "Spirit" is invisible power. It is sometimes translated in the Bible as "wind" or "breath" as well. The Bible says that when every human dies that: "the spirit returns to God who gave it." Since God is everywhere "for in Him we are moving and living and are" when we die our spirit can go to God Who is everywhere. It is not like our spirit goes to a place in heaven.
When God breathed (spirited) into Adam that Adam became a living soul. So soul is the **result** of the combination of spirit (breath) and body.
Jesus, as a person, died just as every human dies. It is a full cessation of life. When Jesus was brought back to life God put the breath or spirit back into Jesus.
Since you evidently believe the gospel accounts, how do you take this apparent co -existence of the dove- descending Holy spirit into what seemed to be a man animated by the 'breath or spirit'? Wasn't that God or some aspect of God? Wasn't the leaving of the Holy spirit (aka dove) on the cross coincidental with the leaving of the 'breath or spirit' that is in every human and which was apparently restored (but not the Holy Spirit Aka Dove) for the resurrection?
What then was the point of the resurrection? How then could Jesus 'breathe' the Holy Spirit over the disciples if it had left him? How do you read these puzzles?
I asked the same question in another forum. But could not get the answer because I have forgot where I have placed it. I am not asking this question in the Christianity section because I think this section is just for the christians but I am not a Christian. I think they will come here and reply.
You claim that Jesus is one of the three forms of God. (I don't know more about it). Then you believe that Jesus was killed. Well.
The whole universe was created by the God. He has created everything including man. He originates cyclone, tornado, earthquake and many other powerful disasters which can destroy a vast area. He has created sun which can enlighten and warm the earth though it is billions of mile away from the earth. He has created fire which can burn a large jungle. Now we see that His created objects are so powerful. So, how much powerful is the creator himself?
Now my question: how one of His creation, man can kill Him (or one form of Him). How is it possible that man has killed the God the creator of whole universe? Can you reply me.
There once was an 18th century guy named Charles Wesley who put that question into a song...
’Tis mystery all: th’Immortal dies:
Who can explore His strange design?
I asked the same question in another forum. But could not get the answer because I have forgot where I have placed it. I am not asking this question in the Christianity section because I think this section is just for the christians but I am not a Christian. I think they will come here and reply.
You claim that Jesus is one of the three forms of God. (I don't know more about it). Then you believe that Jesus was killed. Well.
The whole universe was created by the God. He has created everything including man. He originates cyclone, tornado, earthquake and many other powerful disasters which can destroy a vast area. He has created sun which can enlighten and warm the earth though it is billions of mile away from the earth. He has created fire which can burn a large jungle. Now we see that His created objects are so powerful. So, how much powerful is the creator himself?
Now my question: how one of His creation, man can kill Him (or one form of Him). How is it possible that man has killed the God the creator of whole universe? Can you reply me.
That's a good question to ask a Christian who believes in the Trinity. Not all Christians do, however. I'm a Christian, and I believe that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are three physically distinct persons who are "one" in will, purpose, mind, and heart. God the Father was never killed, as He was in Heaven throughout His Son's ministry here on Earth. You could say that His Son (also fully divine) was put to death by mere human beings, but Christians seem to be pretty much in agreement that He allowed Himself to be sacrificed to pay for the sins of mankind. Having the same divine powers as His Father, though, He was able to rise again on the third day after His death and remains today in an immortal state.
The answer to such a pitiful question is simple, Sumon
The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Krishna, is just that powerful. To die and live and manifest and be a 1000 in 1 and a million in 1 and infinite in 1 and appear to be zero but known to be infinite.
I asked the same question in another forum. But could not get the answer because I have forgot where I have placed it. I am not asking this question in the Christianity section because I think this section is just for the christians but I am not a Christian. I think they will come here and reply.
You claim that Jesus is one of the three forms of God. (I don't know more about it). Then you believe that Jesus was killed. Well.
The whole universe was created by the God. He has created everything including man. He originates cyclone, tornado, earthquake and many other powerful disasters which can destroy a vast area. He has created sun which can enlighten and warm the earth though it is billions of mile away from the earth. He has created fire which can burn a large jungle. Now we see that His created objects are so powerful. So, how much powerful is the creator himself?
Now my question: how one of His creation, man can kill Him (or one form of Him). How is it possible that man has killed the God the creator of whole universe? Can you reply me.
That's a good question to ask a Christian who believes in the Trinity. Not all Christians do, however. I'm a Christian, and I believe that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are three physically distinct persons who are "one" in will, purpose, mind, and heart. God the Father was never killed, as He was in Heaven throughout His Son's ministry here on Earth. You could say that His Son (also fully divine) was put to death by mere human beings, but Christians seem to be pretty much in agreement that He allowed Himself to be sacrificed to pay for the sins of mankind. Having the same divine powers as His Father, though, He was able to rise again on the third day after His death and remains today in an immortal state.
People who don't believe in the Trinity can't call themselves "Christian", since to BE a Christian one must believe in Jesus Christ as one of the 3 people in the one God.
People who don't believe in the Trinity can't call themselves "Christian", since to BE a Christian one must believe in Jesus Christ as one of the 3 people in the one God.
Just sayin'...
and saying it wrong. "Christian" is subjective title that Mormons give themselves because in the end the word Christ simply means "Anointed" Which is how early Greeks translated the Jewish word "Messiah" and if you recall correctly, King David was a "Messiah" which were simply "God appointed Kings"
Mormons believe in God appointed Kings, so they are tyrannical Christians just like all the rest of them. ( just a joke of how Christians don't believe in representative government)
Plenty of Christians, even in early history, have refused to believe in such a silly idea as a Trinity (plenty of Trinities in ancient Polytheist/Zoroastrian governments) and have been martyred.
Think of Unitarians (such as past Presidents), etc. There is even Binitarianism within Christian mythology where the Holy Spirit is not even a person. You should look up nontrinitarianism.
and saying it wrong. "Christian" is subjective title that Mormons give themselves because in the end the word Christ simply means "Anointed" Which is how early Greeks translated the Jewish word "Messiah" and if you recall correctly, King David was a "Messiah" which were simply "God appointed Kings"
Mormons believe in God appointed Kings, so they are tyrannical Christians just like all the rest of them. ( just a joke of how Christians don't believe in representative government)
Plenty of Christians, even in early history, have refused to believe in such a silly idea as a Trinity (plenty of Trinities in ancient Polytheist/Zoroastrian governments) and have been martyred.
Think of Unitarians (such as past Presidents), etc. There is even Binitarianism within Christian mythology where the Holy Spirit is not even a person. You should look up nontrinitarianism.
Sorry, people can twist a word to fit their own definition all they want, but that doesn't make it true.
Christians are followers of the Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, the second person in the trinity.
No one HAS to believe that if they don't want to, but IF they don't believe they cannot be called Christian.
This is not meant to be insulting to anyone, it's just the truth.
Since you evidently believe the gospel accounts, how do you take this apparent co -existence of the dove- descending Holy spirit into what seemed to be a man animated by the 'breath or spirit. Wasn't that God or some aspect of God?'
Good question. There is man's spirit and there is God holy (consecrated) spirit. The "holy spirit descended as if a dove and coming on Him." There wasn't a literal dove (I'm sure you know that). But there is God's spirit and the spirit of the human. Not all humans have the indwelling of God's holy spirit. But all humans do have a spirit which keeps them alive. Of course, this spirit is given to all humans without which no one could live. It is the intangible, invisible power for life. God's holy spirit is the invisible energy for us to be able to do what God has set for us to do.
Quote:
Wasn't that God or some aspect of God? Wasn't the leaving of the Holy spirit (aka dove) on the cross coincidental with the leaving of the 'breath or spirit' that is in every human and which was apparently restored (but not the Holy Spirit Aka Dove) for the resurrection?
Christ said "Into Thy hands I commit **My** spirit" and then He died. I think, prior to His expiring His own spirit on the cross, God's holy spirit left or forsook Him for He said: "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" So there is the breath or spirit every human has which is given them by God and there is the holy spirit which God also gives.
I believe that for resurrection of the dead that God gives the spirit to the dead and this brings them back to life. But on top of that the believer also receives God's holy spirit to enable them to do His will for the on-coming ages. There is also the spirit of Christ which we receive and the spirit of sonship. There is also the spirit of slavery. It is not that these are all "entities" but rather are invisible powers.
Quote:
What then was the point of the resurrection? How then could Jesus 'breathe' the Holy Spirit over the disciples if it had left him? How do you read these puzzles?
Jesus gave up his own spirit and expired on the cross. God also forsook Him on the cross. When Christ was in the tomb God gave Christ's spirit back to Him and Christ also received God's holy spirit to enable Him to do miraculous things. After this, Christ met with His disciples, and does the verse below:
Joh 20:21-22 Jesus, then, said to them again, "Peace to you! According as the Father has commissioned Me, I also am sending you." (22) And saying this, He exhales and is saying to them, "Get holy spirit!"
This was the precursor to them getting holy spirit on the day of Pentacost.
I asked the same question in another forum. But could not get the answer because I have forgot where I have placed it. I am not asking this question in the Christianity section because I think this section is just for the christians but I am not a Christian. I think they will come here and reply.
You claim that Jesus is one of the three forms of God. (I don't know more about it). Then you believe that Jesus was killed. Well.
The whole universe was created by the God. He has created everything including man. He originates cyclone, tornado, earthquake and many other powerful disasters which can destroy a vast area. He has created sun which can enlighten and warm the earth though it is billions of mile away from the earth. He has created fire which can burn a large jungle. Now we see that His created objects are so powerful. So, how much powerful is the creator himself?
Now my question: how one of His creation, man can kill Him (or one form of Him). How is it possible that man has killed the God the creator of whole universe? Can you reply me.
You missed the most important aspect of the entire thing. Sure sinful men could and did kill Jesus Christ wh was fully God and fully man. In His humanity he was subject to the same things we all are. He got hungry, tired, thirsty ETC. So He could suffer and die in His humanity but because He was also fully God, death could not hold Him in the grave and He arose from the dead. God did not die or cease to exist when Jesus lay dead in the tomb but the Man Jesus was dead.
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just a joke of how Christians don't believe in representative government)
