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Old 05-16-2012, 07:43 PM
 
521 posts, read 1,453,696 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
As a Christian, what do you believe that atheists most likely don't believe that makes any practical difference in the real world? Do you think that if a person does not believe in Christ, then that person will be condemned to hell for eternity and should be treated as such in this life?

If you accept mainstream science, including the evolution and common descent of all life on earth, ape-to-human evolution, the big bang, etc., and you accept that everyone should be free to choose their religious belief or nonbelief according to their own conscience, then I probably don't have any significant point of dispute with you on these matters.
I believe the God created the universe and all living things.

I'm not comfortable with the concept of eternal damnation.

I do accept that everyone should be free to choose their religious belief.
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:12 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usedtobeanyer View Post
I believe the God created the universe and all living things.

I'm not comfortable with the concept of eternal damnation.

I do accept that everyone should be free to choose their religious belief.
I don't believe in a creator-God since I'm an atheist. But this personal disagreement may be a mere technicality in the wider scope of things.

I think we can agree on a lot of things which matter. I'm pretty comfortable with the kind of religious belief that Einstein had - that the universe has a transcendent and mysterious quality which should be revered. I believe that the more we learn about nature, the more we understand ourselves. This is because we are profoundly connected with nature in all living things which exist on earth.

Last edited by BigCityDreamer; 05-16-2012 at 08:27 PM..
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Asheville, Nc
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No book/s no personal experiences nothing you can say or have said can prove your religion, even as a Pagan I can't prove mine nor do I care too. Personally I think anyone who is trying to prove his/her faith to you isn't strong in thier own faith, perhaps by pushing thiers on you helps them in some way.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:25 AM
 
Location: South Wales, Yes, I'm, back!
15,586 posts, read 7,806,335 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usedtobeanyer View Post
Yes, the bold section is a requirement of Christianity. That seems to be something that is consistently not understood in this discussion. I don't need or want what an atheist says they would "require" in order to believe.

I have proof of God in my children, sunshine, the trees, the ocean, flowers, you, me, this discussion, etc etc. That is something an atheist will never understand. I see God everyday.
Unfortunately, I assumed far too much about your views. My tone was too harsh. That you question the hellfire threat and seem to be cool with other religions is encouraging. Where you see 'God' I see nature. So long as organized religion and Holy Books are not used as a pretext to tell us how to run our affairs, I am (while not actually agreeing with the assumptions of an intelligence behind it) fairly cool with that.
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Old 05-17-2012, 06:50 AM
 
4,781 posts, read 3,581,249 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usedtobeanyer View Post
People reveal so much more about themselves than anything else in their arguments against Christianity. Why someone would care so much about what someone else believes is beyond me (and seriously, enough about the school boards. You all know that none of you give a damn about that and it isn't impacting your personal life in any way whatsoever).
Please tell me more about my personal life and beliefs. I'd love to learn about them from an expert on them such as yourself - someone who's never met me but obviously knows more about me than me.

Talk about obnoxious.
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Old 05-17-2012, 06:53 AM
 
4,781 posts, read 3,581,249 times
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Originally Posted by usedtobeanyer View Post
No one in this world can say definitively that there is or is not a God.
No one in the world can definitively say anything. It's a limitation of being imperfect humans. Pretending that limit is unique to gods is special pleading.

That out of the way, though, it's fair to say there's no gods in the same sense that there's no Santa Claus or Leprechauns. That is, while not 100% airtight certain the chance of being wrong is astronomically small. It's a perfectly correct use of the word.
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Old 05-17-2012, 08:11 AM
 
521 posts, read 1,453,696 times
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Originally Posted by KCfromNC View Post
Please tell me more about my personal life and beliefs. I'd love to learn about them from an expert on them such as yourself - someone who's never met me but obviously knows more about me than me.

Talk about obnoxious.
Ok, I am listening. The point made was in relation to my trying to understand why some atheists so aggressively dismiss the very possibility of an existence of God. Someone raised the argument that Christians are trying to force creationism into school curriculum. My comment that you replied to was in response to that. In short, I find that really hard to believe that this is impacting anyone directly and is not justification for these overly aggressive "attacks".

So, if I am wrong, and this specific issue has personally impacted you and your family's life, then I apologize and I would be very interested in hearing details.

I think what it brings to mind is the concept of fundamentalism and evangelism that someone else mentioned. And I'm not entirely comfortable with those concepts myself. A fundamentalist doesn't necessarily represent my views or my God. Just because someone is wrapping themselves in the cloak of Christianity it does not mean they are "right". People who claim they are doing "God's work" are not always right. For example, someone who says "gays are bad because the Bible says so and they will burn in hell" does not represent me or my God. God isn't sitting somewhere nodding in approval while these idiots from Westboro Baptist Church are protesting against Gays.

So, back to the point--if someone is trying to "force" Christianity into the public schools, I am not necessarily comfortable with that and it is not my expectation for the education my kids will have. And I am not seeing this happening in my world.
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Old 05-17-2012, 08:17 AM
 
16,448 posts, read 10,585,196 times
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Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen
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Old 05-17-2012, 08:19 AM
 
Location: South Africa
5,414 posts, read 3,622,138 times
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When the xians remain silent to these other "not xians" who is gonna oppose them if not atheists?

They say silence is quiet approval if you get my drift.

Why do I care, well, the fundies are defeated here and just rallying to the cause to defeat them everywhere.

When religion no longer is a political force or denying folk basic human rights, then the atheists will shaddup.

You may feel they do not represent your views but they self identify as xian. We are often told in polls and stats just how xian the US is and then it is a no brainer to be inclusive of all the crazies.

If you cleaned up your own house......
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Old 05-17-2012, 09:51 AM
 
23,029 posts, read 11,123,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
When the xians remain silent to these other "not xians" who is gonna oppose them if not atheists?

They say silence is quiet approval if you get my drift.

Why do I care, well, the fundies are defeated here and just rallying to the cause to defeat them everywhere.

When religion no longer is a political force or denying folk basic human rights, then the atheists will shaddup.

You may feel they do not represent your views but they self identify as xian. We are often told in polls and stats just how xian the US is and then it is a no brainer to be inclusive of all the crazies.

If you cleaned up your own house......
I gave this a lot of thought before I chose Christ . . . because the mainstream Christian religions are heinous misrepresentations of Christ, His unambiguous example and His teachings. But I recognized that the central element in Christianity IS Christ . . . not the religions that have co-opted His name and corrupted His message of love and acceptance with evil "precepts and doctrines of men". . . like Eternal Torment or Annihilation. It is futile, I know . . . as they are the majority and actually believe that by following specific "precepts and doctrines of men" they are Christians.

The conundrum that presented itself to me is that the consciousness I encounter in deep meditation is unconditional love and acceptance as exemplified by Christ. So I identify as a Christian. I consider . . . as Bibleans . . . all those who do not accept His message of unconditional love and acceptance and who revere the words "written in ink" in the Bible over Christ's commands to "love God and each other." Since I know what it means to be a Christian deep down in our inner soul . . . that is all that matters to me . . . not public perceptions.
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