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Unread 05-18-2012, 10:33 AM
 
Location: OKC
4,653 posts, read 2,398,839 times
Reputation: 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
There is a purpose for your existence.


Mircea
I doubt there is "a" purpose for one's existence.

We can have several purposes, and other people may have purposes for us as well. We are free to adopt whichever purpose we find most pleasing.

It's like the the card board box my refrigerator came in. My purpose for it may be completely different than the purpose my kid has for it.

 
Unread 05-18-2012, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Dallas, Texas
1,742 posts, read 745,910 times
Reputation: 875
It is hard to believe when the "absolute moral law" is so outrageously amoral. Like, cartoonishly so. I imagine god would have to have a mustache just so he could twirl it while laughing maniacally.
 
Unread 05-20-2012, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Ohio
8,002 posts, read 3,784,015 times
Reputation: 4499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
I doubt there is "a" purpose for one's existence.
Of course you have a purpose.

You're no different than any of the other millions of life-forms that have evolved on Earth.

Your purpose is the same as their purpose, and your sole purpose, your one and only function, your raison d'etre....

.... is to perpetuate the Human Species, just as it is the purpose of the Larch to perpetuate itself, and of the moss, and of the mushroom and of the daffodil, and of the rabbit, and the frog, and the snake, and the spider and the locust and of E coli.

If you thought your purpose on Earth was to make music for other people to listen to, then you are sadly mistaken. Music does not directly ensure the survival of Humans.

I what way are you different from other life-forms? You aren't. You are born just as they are; you reach sexual maturity just as they do, you reproduce just as they do; and you die just like they do.

You can think and reason? So what? That just makes you better at reproducing to guarantee the Human Species will survive into the future.

Bambi isn't really aware of the fact that there was heavy snowfall in the mountains. And so Bambi does understand that heavy snowfall translates into a lot of melt-water run-off. And because it does, it means the river and tributaries will flood, killing Bambi (and many other organisms).

But you? You can see that, and you can take steps to either attempt to prevent a flood from killing you and your off-spring, or lessen the damage the flood might cause, or flee the area so that you don't die.

So you're special? Hardly. You're simply smarter, at least in theory. There's no Grand Cosmic Plan for you. You're here on this ship sailing through space just like everyone else. And when you finally die, that's it. You don't get reincarnated, you don't get to walk with Jesus in the Kingdom of Heaven, you don't get 72 Vestal Virgins, and you don't get Nirvana.

The only thing you get is a corpse filled with bacteria chowing down on you.

You have within your means, of course, the ability to defy your raison d'etre on this Earth and refuse to procreate. Good. That's just Natural Selection at work. The Human Gene Pool doesn't need people like that, anymore than it needs other genetically weak people increasing the odds that Humanity will be snuffed out at once at some future date.

That might sound callous and cruel, but it is reality. Occasionally life-forms come into conflict with one or more other life-forms, but that's just how it is. One will eventually win out over the other, or become extinct trying. On the other hand, they may decide they need each other, the bacteria inhabiting your mouth, esophagus, stomach and small and large intestines need you just like you need them. So you've come to an easy truce/peace.

Aside from that, it's dog eat dog, or maybe dog eat cat, cat eat rat, rat eat cockroach etc etc.

You can surely delude yourself into believing that you are here for other reasons or for no reason at all, but at the end of the day, the only real reason you're here is to have sex and create new life so that Humanity survives well on into the future. Which is the same thing every other living organism does.

So how are you different from Homo Habilis, an Orang-u-tan or an octopus? You aren't. You are exactly like them, except you can think better and so are better adapted at surviving.

Make no mistake about it; you have a very real purpose on this Earth.

Purposely...

Mircea
 
Unread 05-20-2012, 08:45 PM
 
Location: OKC
4,653 posts, read 2,398,839 times
Reputation: 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Of course you have a purpose.

You're no different than any of the other millions of life-forms that have evolved on Earth.

Your purpose is the same as their purpose, and your sole purpose, your one and only function, your raison d'etre....


---Snip for Brevity-----

Purposely...

Mircea
You have have explained why reproduction is the cause of our existence, but you have failed to explain why that should be the purpose of our existence.

Was it a tragedy when the dinosaurs died out? Not really - at least not on planets outside our solar system. What about nethanderals? Nope, didn't really matter that their time on earth came and went. Our species will one day die out as well. Why should we have the special purpose to reproduce?

Yes, reproduction is what got us here. Yes, we are only different in degree from any other animal on earth. Yes, when we die that's it.

But I already know all of that. Your rant told me nothing new.You still have to explain why I should be a slave to reproduction.

I think it was a happy coincidence that the laws of nature allowed our atoms to form intelligence, but we owe those laws nothing in return. We are free to adopt whatever purpose pleases us most. There's no cosmic ledger that says our purpose is to reproduce. That was just a coincidence.
 
Unread 05-20-2012, 10:00 PM
 
Location: under a rock
1,495 posts, read 430,906 times
Reputation: 992
If we're talking about the Judeo-Christian one...I don't see how he could hold me responsible for my little transgressions. When he drowned all his children, sanctioned mass genocide, made a maniacal bet with his adversary over a man(who worshipped him) named Job, almost got Abraham to murder his son to see how devoted he was(that's some sick, twisted "you know what")...I could go on, but yeah, if he condemns me to hell because I didn't follow/believe his son; i'll be all like "what the fudge?!?!?!"
 
Unread 05-21-2012, 03:12 AM
 
950 posts, read 199,572 times
Reputation: 890
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Morality and the evaluation of it depends entirely on the purpose and the effect of the actions/behaviors on the purpose. It is NOT a fixed set of behaviors.
I never said it was. You are disagreeing with things I did not say or even suggst. However the main issue with your approach here is that you are assuming that we have a purpose based on nothing. Even then just assuming you have one does not in any way help you declare what that purpose is. You have to make that up too. So it is just assumption built on a foundation of assumption with a decoration of assumption thrown in for fun.

Morality really is just a fancy word we apply to the practice of just trying to live together successfully as a species. We do not need to assume or invent gods - after lives - purpose and the like in order to do that quite well - nor do we need to have morality dictated to us on forums by users who appear to have no moral qualms with peppering their posts with insults - personal attacks - linguistic trickery and self congratulation.
 
Unread 05-21-2012, 05:07 AM
Status: "1848...what's this I hear about gold found in Californiyay?" (set 26 days ago)
 
Location: London, UK
11,100 posts, read 4,154,269 times
Reputation: 1904
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
You have have explained why reproduction is the cause of our existence, but you have failed to explain why that should be the purpose of our existence.

Was it a tragedy when the dinosaurs died out? Not really - at least not on planets outside our solar system. What about nethanderals? Nope, didn't really matter that their time on earth came and went. Our species will one day die out as well. Why should we have the special purpose to reproduce?

Yes, reproduction is what got us here. Yes, we are only different in degree from any other animal on earth. Yes, when we die that's it.

But I already know all of that. Your rant told me nothing new.You still have to explain why I should be a slave to reproduction.

I think it was a happy coincidence that the laws of nature allowed our atoms to form intelligence, but we owe those laws nothing in return. We are free to adopt whatever purpose pleases us most. There's no cosmic ledger that says our purpose is to reproduce. That was just a coincidence.
I rather think that you and Mircea are on the same page. If I could put it this way. The only 'purpose' that nature (aka evolution) has for us is to survive - like every other organism on this earth. There is no reason or need for there to be a plan, meaning or objective to us being here other than that - that is the fact of the matter, no matter how much it might disquiet, offend or alarm those whose humanocentric feelings of special importance for the human beans require us to be the special care of something that is going to give our lives Meaning and lanother life after this one.

Wishful thinking.

Natural selection intends us to survive, eat and reproduce in competition with the other lifeforms. Nobody said it was nice. It isn't nice and we don't have to accept that lousy deal. We can think and try to find a better way of doing things. That I rather think, Boxcar, is the point you were making and I wonder whether Mircea would have any disagreement about that.

There is no point other than survival and that is the only point -other than those we decide for ourselves, which is what we can and should do, and before any theists puts their spoke in, som plan imposed on us by a supposed deity is not 'meaning' for us any more than a dictator marching in and posting a list of diktats on the wall.
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