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Muslims kill others for what they believe. Christians get killed by others for what they believe.
Big difference.
Alas... not so big a difference.
Islam actually began as a heretical Christian cult. With the major exception of the divinity of Jesus, Muhammad accepted the vast bulk of Christian theology to include Jesus's status as the Messiah, his virgin birth, his second coming, the Christian salvation scheme, most of Christian eschatology and cosmology and most importantly "the Great Commission." It was this last feature that turned both Christianity and Islam into Imperial faiths spread at sword point. This conception of exclusive but universal monotheism, shared uniquely by Christianity and Islam among great world religions, accounts for their respective evolutions into brutal and intolerant political entities.
Muhammad had no original intention to found a new religion. He understood himself to be firmly within the Abrahamic tradition of Judeo-Christianity up until they rejected his claims to prophethood. This occurred at about the time he fled to Yathrib (Medina), was marked by his changing of the Qibla from Jerusalem to Mecca, and completed with the ethnic cleansing of Yathrib's Jewish community. Only then was Islam recognized as a separate religion from its mother faith of Christianity.
The only primary contemporary difference between Islam and Christianity that accounts for who they do or do not kill is that modern Muslims are generally much better Muslims than modern Christians are Christians.
I agree with the bolded part of your statement which is why I deleted it, but what exactly does the Quran say regarding martyrs?
Does it implore people to kill for their religion?
The Gospels do not say this.
Okay, apology accepted.
While I have read the Quran, I have not delved into it to the depth I have the Bible. My understanding is a bit shallow, so I am loathe to describe what it all means and would prefer if one of our Muslims, prefereably Woodrow LI, were to comment on it. I am not a Muslim, but am trying to understand what they actually believe (or are supposed to believe anyway).
EDIT:
I decided to delete my discussion on my understanding of Islam martyrdom. As the OP stated, this is off-topic. Please start a new thread to discuss it. I will repost what I wrote there. Sorry LS Juan.
Last edited by Fullback32; 06-04-2012 at 03:21 PM..
I agree with the bolded part of your statement which is why I deleted it, but what exactly does the Quran say regarding martyrs? And, of course this just makes Islam apear as a threat to the rest of the world.
Does it implore people to kill for their religion?
The Gospels do not say this.
"Does it implore people to kill for their religion?"
Of course you will find Moderates intrepreting the Quran completely different than the people who are chopping off heads and blowing themselves up.
This is off my OP which asked "did Mohammad and Jesus every really exist" Robert Spencer's book brings a lot to light that seems to be along the same lines as Jesus not having any comtemporaries confirming his existance. Haven't read to book yet but most likely will. Did Muhammad Exist? This Is Robert Spencer’s Shocking Answer | TheBlaze.com
I believe that both of these men could have been existed as 'men' but saying they had the powers of the Avengers which is not so believable.
I don't know about Muhammed, but as an earlier poster stated, there is some evidence for it (birth dates, etc). I honestly haven't looked that much into it, but I am now interested in reading the book you mentioned.
As to Jesus, I am fairly certain that there was a certain Jewish teacher who came along and stirred up some trouble due to his teaching. If he was indeed criticizing the Jewish authorities of the time and stirred up the crowd, this undoubtedly got the attention of the Roman authorities. The Romans were, in no way, going to tolerate yet another messiah upsetting the status quo. This Jewish teacher would have been arrested and exectuted like so many messiahs before him. A whole mythology then grew around this man.
Like so many legends, there is a grain of truth in them. I often liken Jesus to King Arthur. Though scant in documentation, it is thought that there was a Briton cavalry general who did fight and prevailed upon the Saxons. From this one thing, a whole legend grew. I believe the same thing happened with Jesus, whoever he really was.
Muslims kill others for what they believe. Christians get killed by others for what they believe.
Big difference.
Rather missed the point didn't you friend? It's nothing to do with killing others, it's about killing yourself or allowing yourself to be tortured/killed for what you believe. What you were implying in your post was that the apostles would not have endured pain/suffering/death for something that wasn't true. Well what makes you think that Muslim martyrs would? What makes you think that hundreds of thousands of Japanese soldiers in WWII would willing give their lives for their Emperor because they believed he was a god if he really wasn't a god.
What I'm trying to get over to you is that, throughout history, people have willingly endured pain/ suffering and even death for what they believed to be true but...as we have seen all too often...those beliefs have not been true. Let me explain....
When Hale-Bopp appeared in '97, an amateur astronomer reported an unidentified object "following" the comet in its tail. It turned out to be a star that was nowhere near the comet yet thirty-nine members of Heaven's Gate knew that Jesus was waiting for them on the spaceship in Hale-Bopp's tail. They knew he had come to take them away to a distant planet. They knew if they took phenobarbital with a vodka chaser and tied a plastic bag over their heads, they could join Jesus on his secret spaceship disguised as a star. They didn't just believe this Dust Bowl - they knew it. They knew it with such certainty that they took Phenobarbital with a vodka chaser and tied plastic bags over their heads. Do you think that Jesus really was waiting for them aboard his magic space-ship Dust Bowl??
I don't know about Muhammed, but as an earlier poster stated, there is some evidence for it (birth dates, etc). I honestly haven't looked that much into it, but I am now interested in reading the book you mentioned.
Interesting. As pointed out Islam grew out the Judism, Christianity, combined with Arabic traditions and Pagan practices. If Judism and Christianity are found to be untrue, then so is Islam and subsequent religions that have been created ever since.
Rather missed the point didn't you friend? It's nothing to do with killing others, it's about killing yourself or allowing yourself to be tortured/killed for what you believe. What you were implying in your post was that the apostles would not have endured pain/suffering/death for something that wasn't true. Well what makes you think that Muslim martyrs would? What makes you think that hundreds of thousands of Japanese soldiers in WWII would willing give their lives for their Emperor because they believed he was a god if he really wasn't a god.
Good point, I'd rep you but already did:
Martydom: One of the greatest tools in perpetuating your Religian. What greater example can there be but to give your own life (Or perhaps your Child) to insure the perpetuation of your chosen religian
While I have read the Quran, I have not delved into it to the depth I have the Bible. My understanding is a bit shallow, so I am loathe to describe what it all means and would prefer if one of our Muslims, prefereably Woodrow LI, were to comment on it. I am not a Muslim, but am trying to understand what they actually believe (or are supposed to believe anyway).
EDIT:
I decided to delete my discussion on my understanding of Islam martyrdom. As the OP stated, this is off-topic. Please start a new thread to discuss it. I will repost what I wrote there. Sorry LS Juan.
Quite simply Martyrdom in Islam is to follow Allaah(swt) knowing it is going to cost you your life.
It is not suicide or any suicidal action as one is to do their best to protect their own life. It means dieing for Allaah(swt) when to stop following him would save your life.
It can be in the cause of the lesser Jihad, which is physical war. Or it can be for the Greater Jihad, which is overcoming our own shortcomings, fears and sinfil desires.
I decided to delete my discussion on my understanding of Islam martyrdom. As the OP stated, this is off-topic. Please start a new thread to discuss it. I will repost what I wrote there. Sorry LS Juan.
It's all good. As long as we can speak our minds we are free. There are countries where we would not be free to have these discussions without fear of repercussions.
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. As pointed out Islam grew out the Judism, Christianity, combined with Arabic traditions and Pagan practices. If Judism and Christianity are found to be untrue, then so is Islam and subsequent religions that have been created ever since.
