Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Simple question right? What makes you think that your belief is right, and everyone else wrong? And what happens to all those people who don't believe yours? I have always been curious as to people's thinking on this.
I trust myself quite well, and my methods prove so grand, it would be foolish to doubt myself an extra thousand times. Agnosticism is true, self-evident and all. My perception has yet to reach a stumbling block, is there a reason to hit one now? Its only been 1 score, but this I'll tell you well, with the help of all the giants, the truth is visible to all. I once was taught by a graduate from Harvard, philosophy was on his sleeve: he didn't seem to believe me though. It didn't bother me. He pointed that my agnostic argument used an infinite regress... later on that day I thought, I think therefore I am. How can we be sure we think? its because we think it once again.
My believes about Epistemology, I think that's the right word, have never been proven wrong, and I don't think they will.
What happens to the people that don't believe as I? I don't know, I guess I'm sure they die. The people that believe as I do? They may do as they see fit, I don't need any reassurance, so I don't need them around.
In every scenario, Agnosticism is right. Not even a Buddha can escape the trap of thought.
If that's not understandable, you can respond and set me straight.
In John 14:6 Jesus is quoted as saying: I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. I see no reason to doubt what Jesus said.
I didn't always believe that^^^. Took years of research, discussion and stubborness. Then one day I said, what the hell and I asked God about the matter. So today here I am, one of them Evangelical Christians.
Started out as a jewish agnostic, raised by atheists. Then I discovered the spiritual, then God.
What happens to those who reject Christ? I think we all know what is written in the NT. I see no reason to doubt what is said.
I do. I see considerable reason to doubt everything that is claimed as 'Jesus said', not only in John but in the whole of the 4 gospels.
It took decades of research, discussion and stubbornness (both my own and that of believers) and here I am -on the basis of reason and evidence, not on 'What the hell - ask God' (translation -'believe whatever I want to').
So here I am today, one of those goddam' atheists and a militant one, too. And i'd say that you gave up on research - I don't understand why as it isn't rocket science - and just went the faith - route. Your choice, I suppose. It isn't one admire, particuarly.
Let me be clear. MY FAITH IS MINE ALONE! I don't care what others believe or nor do I care being right. My beliefs are mine alone don't agree with me that's your right. I believe what I do because I feel that's it's right for ME alone. I don't preach to anyone about what I believe nor do I advertise it either. You ask me & I'll tell you what I believe but I will no how force it on you or anyone else. I have more peace now then I ever did before as a Christian or as someone who didn't believe in anything. I have no problem sharing my beliefs with anyone when asked. I believe that anything is possible including that I might be wrong. Anything is possible.
Now in apparent contrast to what i posted above, I am content with that. If you wanted to debate the basis for your faith, I'd be willing slug it out with you.
If you posted 'This is what I believe and why' I would feel obligated to post a crit. and argue my doubts about it.
But if you say 'I believe this as a personal preference and don't expect anyone else to believe it and don't want to force it on anyone else', I can live with that.
Despite your hectoring tone, I like what you posted:
Quote:
Originally Posted by benmiller
my belief is right because truth is objective, and is known solely through compulsion, and my beliefs are conformed well to how I discern those compulsions....
those who propose other things come from not wholly accurate or honest inferences, which are only asserted through loving themselves more than truth. otherwise, they wouldn't suppose they're right just because something follows from their premise,
Quote:
Originally Posted by benmiller
why is it your system? that is sort of implicit in the main question....
what makes it right for you but NOT necessarily everyone else?
why is that the best interpretation of your experiences?
and, no, I wish you would preach to me one way or another...if I am wrong, I'd rather be scorned publically than continue with internal errors...
I think you would make a fine deconvert as you show a desire to get at the truth though reasoned and factual debate and to prove wrong or be proven wrong. And presumably to accept the result rather than just opt out into the warm personal fuzzy faith conviction that suits many rather than the rather clinical worldview of atheism.
Now in apparent contrast to what i posted above, I am content with that. If you wanted to debate the basis for your faith, I'd be willing slug it out with you.
If you posted 'This is what I believe and why' I would feel obligated to post a crit. and argue my doubts about it.
But if you say 'I believe this as a personal preference and don't expect anyone else to believe it and don't want to force it on anyone else', I can live with that.
I love a good debate but this is not the thread for that unless someone takes a swing at me. I don't see the point in telling others what to or not to believe. I think it shows a lack of faith on those who feel the need to try to convert others to said religion. But when all is said & done I keep to myself unless asked or provoked.
Why does a person believe that their belief is true; It's THEIR belief and a belief is nothing more than a concept that the mind is attached to. We are all free to believe in what we choose to and we construct the reality of that belief in our minds. Does this make it the truth, for the believer it does and who are we to take away that belief if we disagree with it. One has to ask themselves "what do I get out of destroying anothers belief".
What makes you think that your belief is right, and everyone else wrong?
In my case, I don't have any beliefs. The world around me seems incredibly complex and I cannot understand how it works, so I just accept it and figure out how to deal with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImissThe90's
And what happens to all those people who don't believe yours?
Just like me, they will die and their and their atoms will be used for something else. I am very thankful to be alive.
Sir les- what about the people who find different truths? Are they wrong?? If so, what makes your truth more true than there's?
Because My truth is simplistically simple...most truths start with simple acts of Good will....So to draw a line to the Garden principle rule...till, sow, and grow...with all plants God gave us to use...which are not only said Good by God..but underlined in Genesis 9:3 for a reason, and a time line, and a condition...so no one is decieved by the liar.....Yes?....if we tend and keep the Garden well, in accordance to God's word and will and laws of the lands.....do we have prosparity?...who has fulfilled this?...to my knowledge no one nation has yet fulfilled all the requirements....So...it is still unpoven on the larger scale....But on a small scale..People are growing plants with sinless mindsets...and because they love to do this...the love of God is shown onto other living things....which helps God forgive us, as we do not understand the simplistic unions needed to make an estate sound...(Unions makes helpers, helpers makes the estate work)...So by sowing That Ideal into the mix..where it is already working for us to some extent...to perfect it is to control it ....to know how the matrix works...is to come to know not only God...But those who are helpers of God....See...Let Us Make Humankind....now this can be taken in sevral different ways....Humans are unkind...and hence need to be tamed.....or when God was going to create us he wanted help from the unioned facalty....of which sevral "others" were employed....and so...the law of God.."Do onto others as you would have done onto you"....makes perfect sence....ying and yang....and if we take care of the whole...the subservant parts come into the sound estate of welbeing.,...when all things are put in their rightful placements...in a certain way or light...the system works for the greator good of all......So in the law, we find God trying to make us sinless...and in being sinless..one can restore something that was not given but taken with out permission...which would reverse the curse of death.......backwards and forwards.....first will be last and last will be first.....as we all know, the plant God put in the center of his garden...needs to be in his garden...for God did not make with out need...and god did not put without effect...or causeality....everything has reason, a function, a action or resolving agent in it of the creation....it even has medicines...and it is all in a living form....there is no machine that we can see...like what humans make...yet it is a living machine....and a very complex one at that....and at the center of it all...are the primary elementals and principles....if we pollute them elementals, and taint the principle rules or turn away from the reasons God made us....(to tend and keep the Garden well)....Then the creation becomes a burden...and who suffers this?....we do!
Now causality...not doing something that is necessary...creates problems down the road....if we do not right the cause...the problems will remain always until the causality is corrected ,....Big business is now being created by way of causality...making problems arise, so that bent science is born....and sickness comes about...so they can sell you a cure....not a natural cure...a unnatural one...and tax you to find it...or ask you to pay for it....while holding something out of the Garden by Law and force , so that the problems of sickness arise!
God feeds the Birds and loves them, how much more will he love those who do his will and fulfill his word?
See God needs the seeds...the seeds may not be for us directly..and the plant has many functions while growing in the ground...from water filtration, to nurishment, to making compost and mycelliums in the soils to network other plants communications to ward off sickness and infestations....balance is necessary...and sinlessness is ( a method of practice or intent and or causality with God)....So if we do the will.."tend and keep the Garden"..in a certain way...the resulting factor is more food , more life as a resulting factor...and the waters clean, and the air, and soils in good health...the prosperious estate arises....true?....I would say this kind of thinking leads to something along those lines...with the clean and presteen ideal over our heads...and much of the problems solved for by history and building practices now in action...we can make a cleaner and more natural estate arise....without causality playing into it.....But look...Prohibition of plants made law...is in error of the prime directive of God....and so something is not done that should be done...."Give onto God what belongs to God"....and so how can God cure the Birds with out all seed?...and if the birds get sick...then other things will to...and it spreads...Death throughout the creation...and eventually US...who now pay for the givens...so we do not get sick....but the causality is us not doing what Jesus said to do..nor are they following the laws of the land, or God's laws , precepts, or covenants....and it cost more and more to live in that sin.....wonder why?....yep CAUSALITY DUE TO DISOBEDAINCE... Proof is in the pudding!...more human sacrifices, bloodshed, corruption, underhandedness, lies and liars...doing the dance of stupidity....and who suffers?....Surely we pay and pray....but maybe paying is the problem as is listed in the commandments of IDOLATRY....as long as you play with that idol...you pay the tax that supports the loonies who do these things for fun.....wink wink..nudge nudge nudge..know what I mean?...say no more....how convienant...more bloodshed now taking place..more finger pointing ...more hatred...more suffering please...and more taxes and higher prices to deal with, and of course more working hours to make ends meet Just to live in the polluted estate that Jack and Jill built ....Yah!...and they claim this to be a democracy?....more prisons, more bent laws to the contrary of God...and less freedom to do what one needs to...cause you now have to work longer days at something that has nothing to do with the Garden period....(slavery)...to live....when God said I give you everything....wonder why?....Pollute the free natural, to make the Paid unnatural?...
So...with that in mind...should we support humansacrifices?...if they are based on lies, underhandedness, corruption, (oppression or sanctions to kill others, or cause uprisings of the oppressed and or sanctioned)....when Jesus said "do Good onto those who hate you"....is bombing and slaughtering a good thing? hows about killing children?....or making coladeral death?....are these things Good?....no they are not...But they are done none the less!
Now about the others, God asked we do Good onto in his commandment..it is not just human..it is all living things...hence we have to take them into accounting...as they also help make this planet work....and there is no denying it....and when we start behaving...maybe then the door will open to God and that kingdom....maybe?...Rev 17:17, When the word of God is fulfilled...then we will know....and as far as I Know warfare and bloodshed has been done throughout the history of Human unkind....and trespasses,...onto all living things....and the negitive energy now being made against us, by the other living things on this earth is rising in Judgmental lines of condemnation....wonder why?....and there it is...the destroyer is born to protect the Earth.... comes to bare witness....wonder why?...Yep..Woe to them who harm the earth....and there are many!!!!
So...From that perspective point...you can try to say this is not so...But the smog over all the major cities proves a point I keep jabbin at...and it ain't a good thing to pollute the breath of life...or the waters, or the soils...
And you cannot deny this, as this is being done for profits and gains so more things die due to that pollution and causality!...wonder why?...Oh I see it now $$$$$atan is US doing the opposing of God!
There is only one truth to Planet Earth...it was created by God for reasons we are now coming into solving, understanding, and reasoning out.....there is no other truth...Jesus is the son Of God...and God is the maker of everthing...he knows how it all works....and only he can preside over the creation with any rule of correction or judgement....if we do not do what is best for the whole creation..and cause too much damage to the earth and those other living things he Loves and created....then who is the Evil doer?...who is anti Garden? anti Plant...Anti God and Anti Christ?....this would be anti Life...and they make that too!....SO how long do you and others want to support the anti life movement with your taxed hand polluting and posioning the planet and its future for $$$?......Is their another truth?...Jesus kicked it out of his fathers house....wonder why?
Let us take this simple aspect into accounting....In the beginning..God made a EDEN..and placed us in it to Tend and keep it..and in that Garden..at the center of it...God put a plant , tree, herb, or the like...and it seems there was only one of this kind in that estate....and it was told not to touch it, or eat of it...but it had to be there...it was there, and it was put there, and or made by God to be there....and Those made to tend to it...did the opposite of what God said....hence making a opposite or anti arise....and God sent them into that anti or opposite reality...to seek out, retrieve, and restore what was taken (stollen)...and give it back to God...."The great ordeal?"....is this not common practice in most peoples moral fabric?...if something is stollen, when found..is it not given back to the one it belongs to?.....Well then...what is the world waiting for?.....maybe that is Rev 17:17 in a nut shell.....and when God comes...as is written...what is brought as offerings?....palm leaves?.....Yah....what plant is outlawed...and has a leaf like a palm?....is medicine, is a plant of the sun, waters, and soils...and makes seeds...is green, and was Given...to restore it..under the laws of God...so sinlessness would arise..so the reversal could take place.....Positive to anti...anti to positive.....and a understanding of God for the greator Good of all...regains EDENS...which is the multiple of EDEN...something God asked we do...for our own benefit no doubt...eh?
Why does a person believe that their belief is true; It's THEIR belief and a belief is nothing more than a concept that the mind is attached to. We are all free to believe in what we choose to and we construct the reality of that belief in our minds. Does this make it the truth, for the believer it does and who are we to take away that belief if we disagree with it. One has to ask themselves "what do I get out of destroying anothers belief".
True, if a person is secure in their own belief than what is the difference what another believes? To me a belief is not a right or wrong but just what we think based on our own experience. And by listening to others it may actually streamline our own beliefs. The truth of this issue will remain unknown in our life, and probably for eternity too.
Here is more factual truths...about a certain plant or plants...made outlawed or said to be contrabann..and or Evil...
If one grows these types of plants, one can trade for what one lacks that another has, and or he or she or it may be lacking in...and thus sharing comes about...with the givens..sharing is permitted by Jesus and God...for they both used this method in their doings....God said "I give you everything"....And Jesus when he walked as a man...charged no one for his works of his faith in the Father...whom he said was in him...and as him he to Gave of himself to all who would listen....healing, teachings, and Love of a certain nature...."Give onto God what belongs to God"...is just the resolving factor to something that has gone missing..."in the Beginning"...which needs to be restored to where and what it was designed for...connecting the earth to the sun, waters, and soils and even to God...so all things come under his kingdom, and the evil doers ousted eventually...Sinless and clean..presteen..in mind, body, and spirit......Yes?...This is where we learn self control....Not to touch something, until it is ready to be touched...(seeded and or ripe)...to make more...(Multiply) ..Share...(divide)...and in Love of all living things...show respect of them, by caring for them, in making a place for all..with in reason.....and keep them sound.....is this not a moral compas to that kingdom of something that can be eternally known?.....and what is gained by polluting it?...surely not Prosparity in health, but more sickness suffering and death?....ah and that costs us to...and when they die..the sickness they had is burried into the ground..making more sickness perhaps?...and then,, would you say a filtering agent is required to remove that sickness?....and Here Is where I push that palm leafed plant back onto the table....and for good reason?....But look...they continue to prohibite and remove certain plants from the Earth, that are now known to be clean burning fuels, food, medicines, and helpers of the planets climatization processes.....which brings life when used a certain way (sinlessluy for the greator Good of all)...and also give a simple freedom from the IDOL....they do not want anyone to have....So forced Slavery,imprisonment, and or worse...while they errect their IDOLIC system of bloodshed and corruption...saying they are free, when enslaved to make it more important than God for Life.....Most enlighting when one takes that perspective to the nth degree...and then open The Holy Bible for references...it almost seems to be the pun for fun....wonder why?....
Yep Marijuana is a plant of salvation of the planet...the more it is sown in the sinless formation of self...the better it is for all living things at heart....and God loves them and feeds them....and it starts with that Plant being where God put it.....at the center of the Garden....follow me he said....Do the same!...and they denie it still!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I do. I see considerable reason to doubt everything that is claimed as 'Jesus said', not only in John but in the whole of the 4 gospels.
as you show a desire to get at the truth though reasoned and factual debate and to prove wrong or be proven wrong. And presumably to accept the result rather than just opt out into the warm personal fuzzy faith conviction that suits many rather than the rather clinical worldview of atheism.
