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Old 01-08-2008, 07:35 AM
 
Location: USA
4,980 posts, read 8,417,388 times
Reputation: 2506

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Quote:
Originally Posted by twojciac View Post
What if we were created by God, and he's just watching when we do something interesting?

The suggestion that he doesn't interact with us doesn't directly infer a lack of his existance. I could write a computer simulation and let it rip and never touch it again... but that doesn't mean I don't exist, nor would it make me evil.
It's not a mere suggestion that he doesn't interact with us. He doesn't. Period.
Why would he just be watching us? Why would he watch aberrations and cruelty and not stop them when he had the power to? Typical response brings up free will...but then you're advocating the free will of the evil person over the victim.
None of this points to anyone existing.

 
Old 01-08-2008, 07:38 AM
 
Location: USA
4,980 posts, read 8,417,388 times
Reputation: 2506
If God exists, and he has the power to stop suffering and doesn't, that makes him cruel or robotic. To heck with there being some big secret plan. What would play out, someone who has a horrible life goes to heaven and says, "God, why didn't you ever help, why didn't you respond to me?" What would God say?
 
Old 01-08-2008, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
5,233 posts, read 7,720,293 times
Reputation: 2623
He would say: " I have given you great abilities to think and use reason to solve these sources of suffering, yet you do not use these abilities. I have given you a great sense of empathy, yet you allow other beings to suffer. Instead of doing something to end the suffering you talk of, you spend all day bitching on some stupid internet forum."

And by "you," I don't mean you, Nebulous. It's a general you that includes me, too!


Quote:
Originally Posted by nebulous1 View Post
If God exists, and he has the power to stop suffering and doesn't, that makes him cruel or robotic. To heck with there being some big secret plan. What would play out, someone who has a horrible life goes to heaven and says, "God, why didn't you ever help, why didn't you respond to me?" What would God say?
 
Old 01-08-2008, 07:58 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,778,358 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by nebulous1
Quote:
What would play out, someone who has a horrible life goes to heaven and says, "God, why didn't you ever help, why didn't you respond to me?" What would God say?
I'd imagine God would say:
'What are you, a child? Are you not responsible for your own actions? Am I, your Lord and God, to be held responsible every time you bump your toe? Do you curse Me every time something unfortunate happens to you and do you praise Me for every blessing in your life? Are you not solely responsible for the actions you have taken in life?'

I mean is God responsible for the actions we take as individuals?
 
Old 01-08-2008, 08:23 AM
 
Location: USA
4,980 posts, read 8,417,388 times
Reputation: 2506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art123 View Post
He would say: " I have given you great abilities to think and use reason to solve these sources of suffering, yet you do not use these abilities. I have given you a great sense of empathy, yet you allow other beings to suffer. Instead of doing something to end the suffering you talk of, you spend all day bitching on some stupid internet forum."

And by "you," I don't mean you, Nebulous. It's a general you that includes me, too!

You consider posting on a debate forum "bitching"?
And what does having empathy toward others have to do with an absent god who doesn't do anything with his power to help anyone?
I don't get your drift at all.........
 
Old 01-08-2008, 08:26 AM
 
Location: USA
4,980 posts, read 8,417,388 times
Reputation: 2506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by nebulous1 I'd imagine God would say:
'What are you, a child? Are you not responsible for your own actions? Am I, your Lord and God, to be held responsible every time you bump your toe? Do you curse Me every time something unfortunate happens to you and do you praise Me for every blessing in your life? Are you not solely responsible for the actions you have taken in life?'

I mean is God responsible for the actions we take as individuals?

Of course we are responsible for our own actions!
Since when are we to blame though, for everything that happens to us?
What you wrote about your god sounds like a condescending frugal person to me! Surely not loving, surely a finger pointing, find fault with god.
You won't address what happens in the world to people beyond their control. There are a lot of things that happen to people that they cannot have control over or with their best efforts, change.
I would hope if you ever met a person who was dying, you would not have this tone with them.
The more I read from Christians, the more sure I am that my goals and truths are not the same as theirs.
 
Old 01-08-2008, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,639 posts, read 24,765,932 times
Reputation: 11318
If there's no proof, it's no different from believing in the tooth fairy or Santa Claus.
Just because someone believes something, it doesn't make it true.

I'm sorry if History bothers you, but it is what it is and you can't ignore what you dislike and believe what you do. You make your claims that Christianity was against, science, was against medicine was against this and that. It's all your right to say, but it is also my right to point out otherwise. Just like it can be said that someone getting all their information from pro-Christian sources will be biased, it goes the other way too.

Truly, history clearly indicates that the christian churches were against science. You can say what you like, but that doesn't make it true. Sorry if you don't like the facts, but they're not disputable. Flat earth, anyone? or the pot calling the kettle black.
 
Old 01-08-2008, 08:42 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,778,358 times
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Originally Posted by nebulous1
Quote:
I would hope if you ever met a person who was dying, you would not have this tone with them.
The more I read from Christians, the more sure I am that my goals and truths are not the same as theirs.
What makes you think I'm a Christian?
I simply consider death a natural part of life. Nor do I feel pity or joy when someone is in the process of dying.
 
Old 01-08-2008, 08:58 AM
 
13,072 posts, read 11,399,782 times
Reputation: 2608
Quote:
Originally Posted by nebulous1 View Post
Of course we are responsible for our own actions!
Since when are we to blame though, for everything that happens to us?
What you wrote about your god sounds like a condescending frugal person to me! Surely not loving, surely a finger pointing, find fault with god.
You won't address what happens in the world to people beyond their control. There are a lot of things that happen to people that they cannot have control over or with their best efforts, change.
I would hope if you ever met a person who was dying, you would not have this tone with them.
The more I read from Christians, the more sure I am that my goals and truths are not the same as theirs.

First, it is never too late for someone to accept Christ. When one attempts to blame God for the results of their life, one will often forget all of the times he did offer them aid. Sometimes God speaks to us, regardless if we have accepted him yet and he offers himself to them. One can claim they never heard it, but that is often because we let life drown out his offers of help.

There is story that circulates from time to time.

----------------------------------------
There was a man sitting on top of his roof because there was a flood. The water kept rising higher and higher over time.

A man in a small boat rowed by and called up to him "Hey, get in! you can come with me!" and the man said "No thank you, God will save me!". The water continued to rise. He continued to pray for help from God.

Next a police rescue boat came by and they called out "Jump in the boat, you can come with us!" The man replied "No thank you, God will save me!". The water continued to rise. He continued to pray for help from God.

When the water was at the mans feet, a national guard helicopter flew in and said "Here, come with us, we will help you to safety!". The man replied "No thank you, God will save me!" He continued to pray for help from God.

The water finally washed him away and he drowned. When he arrived up in heaven, he asked God. Why didn't you save me? I prayed and waited for you to help me. I have devoted all my life to your worship and Glory. You claimed you would be there for me, yet you did not come.

God said "I came to you three times, once by row boat, once by speed boat, and last by a helicopter. Though you refused me each time".
-----------------------

Sometimes we hear only what we want to. Sometimes we misinterpret God's help, purpose and intentions. We often attempt to expect things to be in ways we want them to be rather than truly listening to what God wants of us and how he can help us. We will often only see our hardships and ignore the good things that God did give us no matter how small it might be. Sometimes we measure the weight of our life and attempt to gauge it base on how much we think God cares about us. There is much we do not know, but we do know that God does love us and he has not forsaken us who believe in him. This world is merely a stepping stone. We can choose to catch the boat or keep looking for God to save us. In the end, all can be picked up and taken to safety.
 
Old 01-08-2008, 09:14 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,778,358 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by Nomander
Quote:
One can claim they never heard it, but that is often because we let life drown out his offers of help.
True, most religions only obsess over WHO said what instead of WHAT was actually being said.
I think it mostly has to do with the ego; we don't like what other people are telling us, unless they say it in the way we prefer to hear it. So it often comes down to the way it is said (the messenger) instead of what is being said (the message).
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