Islam/Christianity Thoughts on The Book of Revelations (paradise, punishment, Commandments)

[papabear3322]

OK now the Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost? In Islam is Christ to be considered the Son of God? The Way to forgivness?
I see many are reading this. I appreciate your time in helping to put to rest some of the myths I have heard of your faith over the years. When I first met my father-in-law I had recently been asked to stop coming to church. When he and I were discussing God and the like I asked him which church he belonged to and if he thought he was saved. He laughed rather loudly and said of course he was saved and that he was the founder of the Round Church, of course I had to ask. What is the Round Church and how do you know you are saved? Again he laughed Of course I am saved my Church is Round there is no place for the devil to corner me. I have often contemplated this, and over the years I've heard I'm already cornered and a miriad of other things. I Do not go to church at all anymore, Save my own meetings of The Round Church and they are small and very informal. We study topics all over the spectrum of religeon. In my Dreams I would love to build it for real a place where one week an Imam speaks the next a rabbi and so on, With one simple Benediction That GOD Would lead us toward knowlege together. I would consider this thread to be one step closer to that. Maybe someday there will be an actual Round Church with round tables so all within are considered EQUAL and GOD is at the center of all.

[papabear3322]

Here is what is said about the Covenant being a promise and the Sabbath Seals it. Here is a couple KJV OT Verses about it.

Exodus 31:13
“Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you.
Exodus 31:12-14 (in Context) Exodus 31 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

Exodus 31:15
Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 31:14-16 (in Context) Exodus 31 (Whole Chapter

Exodus 31:16
Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.
Exodus 31:15-17 (in Context) Exodus 31

[papabear3322]

I thought I would check on a calender this is what wiki had:
Days of the week
In Arabic, as in Hebrew, the "first day" of the week corresponds with Sunday of the planetary week. The Islamic and Jewish weekdays begin at sunset, whereas the medieval Christian and planetary weekdays begin at the following midnight.[6] The Christian liturgical day, however, kept in monasteries, begins with vespers (see vesper), which is evening, in line with the other Abrahamic traditions. Muslims gather for worship at a mosque at noon on "gathering day" (Yaum al-Jumu‘ah, yawm يوم means ‘day’) which corresponds with Friday. Thus "gathering day" is often regarded as the weekly day of rest. This is frequently made official, with many Muslim countries adopting Friday and Saturday (e.g. Egypt) or Thursday and Friday (e.g. Saudi Arabia) as official weekends, during which offices are closed; other countries (e.g. Iran) choose to make Friday alone a day of rest, and still others (e.g. Morocco) adopt the Western Saturday-Sunday weekend while making Friday a working day.
ArabicEnglishMaltiTurkishSomaliPersianUrduHindiMalayalamBengaliKannadaHebrewIndonesianMalayPashtoTamilTeluguKashmiri1(Yaum) al-Aḥad
الأحد
(first day)SundayIl-ĦaddPazarAxadYek-Shanbeh
یکشنبهItwaar
اتوارRavivaar
रविवारഞായര്*
ñaayarRobibar
রবিবারBhaanuvaara / Ravivaara / Aadityavaara
ಭಾನುವಾರ / ರವಿವಾರ / ಆದಿತ್ಯವಾರYom Rishon
יום ראשוןMingguAhadاتوار itwarஞாயிற்றுக்கிழமை
gyayitrukkilamaiఆదివారం
AadivaaramA'ath'war2(Yaum) al-Ithnayn
الاثنين
(second day)MondayIt-TnejnPazartesiIsniinDo-Shanbeh
دوشنبهPiir
پيرSomvaar
सोमवारതിങ്കള്*
thiṅkalShombar
সোমবারSomavaara
ಸೋಮವಾರYom Sheni
יום שניSeninIsninگل gulதிங்கட்கிழமை
thingatkkilamaiసోమవారం
SomavaaramChender'r'war3(Yaum) ath-Thalaathaaʼ
الثلاثاء
(third day)TuesdayIt-TlietaSalıTalaadoSeh-Shanbeh
سه شنبهMangal
منگلMangalvaar
मंगलवारചൊവ്വ
chovvaMonggolbar
মঙ্গলবারMangalavaara
ಮಂಗಳವಾರYom Shlishi
יום שלישיSelasaSelasaنھہ nahiaசெவ்வாய்க்கிழமை
sevvaikkilamaiమంగళవారం
MangalavaaramBo'um'war4(Yaum) al-Arba‘aa’
الأربعاء
(fourth day)WednesdayL-ErbgħaÇarşambaArbacoChahar-Shanbeh
چهارشنبهBudh
بدهBudhvaar
बुधवारബുധന്*
budhanBudhbar
বুধবারBudhavaara
ಬುಧವಾರYom Revi'i
יום רביעיRabuRabuشورو shoroபுதன்கிழமை
buthankilamaiబుధవారం
BudhavaaramBo'dh'war5(Yaum) al-Khamīs
الخميس
(fifth day)ThursdayIl-ĦamisPerşembeKhamiisPanj-Shanbeh
پنجشنبهJumeh‘raat
جمعراتGuruvaar / Brahaspativaar
गुरुवारവ്യാഴം
vyazhamBrihôshpotibar
বৃহস্পিতবারGuruvaara
ಗುರುವಾರYom Khamishi
יום חמישיKamisKhamisزیارت ziyaratவியாழக்கிழமை
viyalakkilamaiగురువారం
GuruvaaramBres'war6(Yaum) al-Jumu‘ah
الجمعة
(gathering day)FridayIl-ĠimgħaCumaJimcoJom‘e / Adineh
جمعه / آدينهJuma‘h
جمعہShukravaar
शुक्रवारവെള്ളി
veḷḷiShukrobar
শুক্রবারShukravaara
ಶುಕ್ರವಾರYom Shishi
יום ששיJumatJumaatجمعه jumaவெள்ளிக்கிழமை
vellikkilamaiశుక్రవారం
ShukravaaramJum'mah7(Yaum) as-Sabt
السبت
(Sabbath day)SaturdayIs-SibtCumartesiSabtiShanbeh
شنبهHafta / Sanichar
سنیچر / ہفتہShanivaar
शनिवारശനി
shaniShonibar
শনিবারShanivaara
ಶನಿವಾರYom Shabbat
יום שבתSabtuSabtuخالی khaliசனிக்கிழமை
sanikkilamaiశనివారం
ShanivaaramButt'war alah
[edit]

[Woodrow LI]

Originally Posted by papabear3322

OK now the Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost? In Islam is Christ to be considered the Son of God? The Way to forgivness?
I see many are reading this. I appreciate your time in helping to put to rest some of the myths I have heard of your faith over the years. When I first met my father-in-law I had recently been asked to stop coming to church. When he and I were discussing God and the like I asked him which church he belonged to and if he thought he was saved. He laughed rather loudly and said of course he was saved and that he was the founder of the Round Church, of course I had to ask. What is the Round Church and how do you know you are saved? Again he laughed Of course I am saved my Church is Round there is no place for the devil to corner me. I have often contemplated this, and over the years I've heard I'm already cornered and a miriad of other things. I Do not go to church at all anymore, Save my own meetings of The Round Church and they are small and very informal. We study topics all over the spectrum of religeon. In my Dreams I would love to build it for real a place where one week an Imam speaks the next a rabbi and so on, With one simple Benediction That GOD Would lead us toward knowlege together. I would consider this thread to be one step closer to that. Maybe someday there will be an actual Round Church with round tables so all within are considered EQUAL and GOD is at the center of all.

We believe Jesus(as) to be one of the Best loved Prophets(PBUT). we do not believe he is the Son of God and we believe there is no Trinity. We do Believe Jesus(as) is the Masah (Messiah). We do not believe he was Crucified or that he died, but that he was saved from death and lifted up to Heaven where he now waits to return to Earth. We do believe he will return to complete his life, destroy the Dajjal (anti-Christ) and to testify against those who worship him as a god. we do believe the only unforgivable sin is the sin of shirk which is the worship of anything or anybody along with God or instead of God.

We do believe in the Holy Scriptures that were revealed through the Prophets those being the Tauret(Torah), The Zaboor (Book of Pslams) The Injil (The Gospel of Jesus) and the Qur'an. However we believe only the Qur'an remains in it's original form and parts of the previous books have been lost and/or have had changes made in them. The Injil (Gospel of Jesus) was replaced by the NT and was not saved at all. We believe all of the Scriptures had brought the same message, but us humans messed it up every time and the Qur'an is the last time it will be revealed to us and is our last chance to get it right.

As for your dream of one day of one church and all worshiping the same we believe that will come with the Mehdi and the Return of Jesus(as) at which time the next and final Caliphate (Kingdom) will form and ther will be only one religion and all will worship the one God(swt). This will be the final event on earth before Judgement Day. Among some Muslims there is belief the Mehdi and the Dajall are already here and soon Jesus(as) will return. and with the Mehdi will destroy the Dajall(the anti-Christ)

[papabear3322]

I can only think of a couple more question's at this time and that would be about the writings of King Solomon and your opinions on them?, And on Forgivness?. If the mesiah didn't die then how are sins forgiven? I dont want this to seem like some kind of attempt at conversion or anything of the sort. I am simply just trying to form an educated opinion of my own.

[Woodrow LI]

Originally Posted by papabear3322

I can only think of a couple more question's at this time and that would be about the writings of King Solomon and your opinions on them?, And on Forgivness?. If the mesiah didn't die then how are sins forgiven? I dont want this to seem like some kind of attempt at conversion or anything of the sort. I am simply just trying to form an educated opinion of my own.

We Believe God(swt) has no needs and is capable of all things. He has no need of sacrifices and is able to forgive the sins of those who sincerely ask for forgiveness.

We believe in the full mercy and Justice of Allaah(swt) and his being all forgiving and have faith he will forgive those who come to him with a sincere heart to repent and pray to be forgiven. Masah (Messiah) does not mean savior or the like. It means the appointed one who will come as a leader. Jesus(as) is the Messiah and did not die as he has to return to lead the world against the Dajall(anti-Christ) When the Dajall makes his appearance.

As For Sulaiman(PBUH) He was one of the wisest of Prophets and a very Just King. As for his writings we do not know if any writings attributed to him are actually by him. what the Qur'an says about him can be read here along with Ibn Kathir's Tafsir. The words from the Qur'an are in Italics. the rest is Kathir's tafsir.

We see Tafsir (commentary) as being the opinion of a person and not the word of God(swt) However, the Tafsir are a good Scholastic view and opinion. Scholars do sometimes differ in opinions. It is good to always verify all things from all available sources including your own views. Never take the words of any Scholar, Imam, Mufti, Mullah or Sheik blindly, do your best to try to verify all words from any human.

Here is the link: Ibn Kathir: Story of Prophet Sulaiman/Solomon (pbuh)

[papabear3322]

Thank you that was a beutiful read. I appreciate you taking the time to help. I will try to come up with some more so we can keep this thread on top of the que as many are reading this. I hope that some will take the time to go through the links and do their homework. Those who do should remember to verify all their thoughts on the scripture. All words from the past are Written by Men and subject to the translation and editing of time. In my quest I have found much is edited for control of the small minded masses. They should also be warned that much on the unkown is there (sacred-texts.com)as well. I have come to the opinion that God(Allah) wants us to submit(Islam) out of pure love. He wants us to fear as a child fears disappointing his Father. To serve a dutiful Master Who wants to give his servants His kingdom.
I would love for an indepth study the Prophesy's of the Qu'ran. I had the wonderful opportunity to study biblical Prophesy with both HMS Richards SR. and JR. before they passed (SDA Evangelists).
I thank GOD for allowing the opportunity to start what could be an amazing friendship. I Wish I could Write these following words in English/Arabic as I can speak them.
May the Peace of GOD be with you ALL your Days.

[Woodrow LI]

Originally Posted by papabear3322

Thank you that was a beutiful read. I appreciate you taking the time to help. I will try to come up with some more so we can keep this thread on top of the que as many are reading this. I hope that some will take the time to go through the links and do their homework. Those who do should remember to verify all their thoughts on the scripture. All words from the past are Written by Men and subject to the translation and editing of time. In my quest I have found much is edited for control of the small minded masses. They should also be warned that much on the unkown is there (sacred-texts.com)as well. I have come to the opinion that God(Allah) wants us to submit(Islam) out of pure love. He wants us to fear as a child fears disappointing his Father. To serve a dutiful Master Who wants to give his servants His kingdom.
I would love for an indepth study the Prophesy's of the Qu'ran. I had the wonderful opportunity to study biblical Prophesy with both HMS Richards SR. and JR. before they passed (SDA Evangelists).
I thank GOD for allowing the opportunity to start what could be an amazing friendship. I Wish I could Write these following words in English/Arabic as I can speak them.
May the Peace of GOD be with you ALL your Days.

I will try to find you a listing of the Prophecies in the Qur'an.Nearly all have already happened. At the moment here are the signs of the last days from the Ahadith and Qur'an. Nealy all of the minor ones have happened.

Signs Before the Day of Judgment

[Woodrow LI]

Originally Posted by papabear3322

Thank you. I am also currently learning Cherokee or trying its difficult as I only recently met my father(people on city data actually recently re-united us THX again).Not to mention I recently found out had the blood of "The People" in me. I was raised by a Woman who judged books by their covers so there was much about myself I did not know. The one thing I have been always certain of is that I am a SON of the Living GOD,being a bastard or adopted dosent matter with him. But it has sure been nice to put some heritage behind who I am. Even though my earthly parents didn't raise me I am much like them Both, Some scientists argue today about genetics having nothing to do with your outcome that it is simply enviroment but I would have to disagree. The Woman Who addopted me (GOD BLESS HER SOUL I wouldn't be the man I am without her)did't have many friends of "color" . When asked why She simply replied We just don't associate. I am more like my birth parents who hold no such pre conseived Ideas On creed or color.
So I see your on a Res. How do you interpret the old stories/ways through your Islamic views. The book of Mormon speak of the nephi. There are native family's with the name. Again One World One God?

The Enay languages and traditions I am most familiar with are Tsalagi (Cherokee) and Sioux(Lakotah). I find both to be very similar in their beliefs and traditional stories.

Just my opinion, in a meatphorical manner and dealing with the metaphysical aspects they are virtually identical to the message we have in the Torah and Qur'an. I am absolutely convinced they had true Prophets and are evidence that Prophets were sent to all People of all Nations.

We could have learned much from them if we had taken time to understand instead of assuming they were ignorant of God. Just my opinion, but they were much closer to the word of God than the Missionaries were.

[Fullback32]

Originally Posted by Woodrow LI

The Enay languages and traditions I am most familiar with are Tsalagi (Cherokee) and Sioux(Lakotah). I find both to be very similar in their beliefs and traditional stories.

Just my opinion, in a meatphorical manner and dealing with the metaphysical aspects they are virtually identical to the message we have in the Torah and Qur'an. I am absolutely convinced they had true Prophets and are evidence that Prophets were sent to all People of all Nations.

We could have learned much from them if we had taken time to understand instead of assuming they were ignorant of God. Just my opinion, but they were much closer to the word of God than the Missionaries were.

Wee-cha Woodrow! I am glad there are those who understand that. You post makes me smile.