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Old 07-02-2012, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Canada
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Flavius Josephus (37 - 100 A.D.), wrote that the Greek philosopher Aristotle had said: "...These Jews are derived from the Indian philosophers; they are named by the Indians Calani." (Book I:22.)
Clearchus of Soli wrote, "The Jews descend from the philosophers of India. The philosophers are called in India Calanians and in Syria Jews. The name of their capital is very difficult to pronounce. It is called 'Jerusalem.'"

"Megasthenes, who was sent to India by Seleucus Nicator, about three hundred years before Christ, and whose accounts from new inquiries are every day acquiring additional credit, says that the Jews 'were an Indian tribe or sect called Kalani...'" (Anacalypsis, by Godfrey Higgins, Vol. I; p. 400.)



Martin Haug, Ph.D., wrote in The Sacred Language, Writings, and Religions of the Parsis, "The Magi are said to have called their religion Kesh-î-Ibrahim.They traced their religious books to Abraham, who was believed to have brought them from heaven." (p. 16.)


In Hindu mythology, Sarai-Svati is Brahm's sister. The bible gives two stories of Abraham. In this first version, Abraham told Pharaoh that he was lying when he introduced Sarai as his sister. In the second version, he also told the king of Gerar that Sarai was really his sister. However, when the king scolded him for lying, Abraham said that Sarai was in reality both his wife and his sister! "...and yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife." (Genesis 20:12.)



"One of the shrines in the Kaaba was also dedicated to the Hindu Creator God, Brahma, which is why the illiterate prophet of Islam claimed it was dedicated to Abraham. The word "Abraham" is none other than a malpronunciation of the word Brahma. This can be clearly proven if one investigates the root meanings of both words. Abraham is said to be one of the oldest Semitic prophets. His name is supposed to be derived from the two Semitic words 'Ab' meaning 'Father' and 'Raam/Raham' meaning 'of the exalted.' In the book of Genesis, Abraham simply means 'Multitude.' The word Abraham is derived from the Sanskrit word Brahma. The root of Brahma is 'Brah' which means - 'to grow or multiply in number.' In addition Lord Brahma, the Creator God of Hinduism is said to be the Father of all Men and Exalted of all the Gods, for it is from him that all beings were generated. Thus again we come to the meaning 'Exalted Father.' This is a clear pointer that Abraham is none other than the heavenly father Brahma." [/SIZE]
(Vedic Past of Pre-Islamic Arabia; Part VI; p.2.)




http://www.hermetics.org/Abraham2.html
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Old 07-03-2012, 07:24 AM
 
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I think you meant to say Brahma and Saraisvati
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Old 07-03-2012, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
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You do understand that there are more holes in Josephus' writings than a hunk of Swiss cheese, right?
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Old 07-04-2012, 09:26 AM
 
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In addition to Fred's correct observation that
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
You do understand that there are more holes in Josephus' writings than a hunk of Swiss cheese, right?
there are a few other items in your post that do not hold up to linguistic scrutiny. Since Fred has already dealt with the problem of using these ancient authors (not just Josephus), I won't address them further.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meester-Chung View Post
Martin Haug, Ph.D., wrote in The Sacred Language, Writings, and Religions of the Parsis, "The Magi are said to have called their religion Kesh-î-Ibrahim.They traced their religious books to Abraham, who was believed to have brought them from heaven." (p. 16.)
Haug was writing in 1907, and the field has moved much farther since that time. One thing to notice is that a tradition's belief concerning the origins of the religion of the "Magi" does not make that belief correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meester-Chung View Post
In Hindu mythology, Sarai-Svati is Brahm's sister. The bible gives two stories of Abraham. In this first version, Abraham told Pharaoh that he was lying when he introduced Sarai as his sister. In the second version, he also told the king of Gerar that Sarai was really his sister. However, when the king scolded him for lying, Abraham said that Sarai was in reality both his wife and his sister! "...and yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife." (Genesis 20:12.)
If we were to compare any mythological brother/sister relationship we came across in the ANE, we could also claim that any number of other figures were Abraham and Sarah.

In addition to that, the wife/sister motif was used mutliple times in the Patriarchal Narratives, and the status of Sarah as "sister" may have had legal ramifications (see Speiser, AB 1, 1962) rather than natural ones. It may also have been an apologetic introduced to make Abram's character a little more honest, for the oldest tradition in the Pentateuch has an unabashed Abram passing his wife off as his sister in an attempt to save his life, and she ends up in a harem, with the result that he comes out of the deal with lots of wealth and servants. The Yahwist writer does not apologize for Abram's trickster (or cowardly) behavior. It is only the later traditum that does this, much like the Chronicler whitewashed Yahweh's character in the matter of the dreaded Census - attributing the actions to Satan, instead.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Meester-Chung View Post
"One of the shrines in the Kaaba was also dedicated to the Hindu Creator God, Brahma, which is why the illiterate prophet of Islam claimed it was dedicated to Abraham. The word "Abraham" is none other than a malpronunciation of the word Brahma. This can be clearly proven if one investigates the root meanings of both words. Abraham is said to be one of the oldest Semitic prophets. His name is supposed to be derived from the two Semitic words 'Ab' meaning 'Father' and 'Raam/Raham' meaning 'of the exalted.' In the book of Genesis, Abraham simply means 'Multitude.' The word Abraham is derived from the Sanskrit word Brahma. The root of Brahma is 'Brah' which means - 'to grow or multiply in number.' In addition Lord Brahma, the Creator God of Hinduism is said to be the Father of all Men and Exalted of all the Gods, for it is from him that all beings were generated. Thus again we come to the meaning 'Exalted Father.' This is a clear pointer that Abraham is none other than the heavenly father Brahma." [/SIZE]
(Vedic Past of Pre-Islamic Arabia; Part VI; p.2.)
The linguistic information in the above is just not accurate - "Abraham", as a personal name, is not a "malpronounciation [MISpronounciation?] of the word Brahma". The languages are entirely unrelated, and the time periods in which the two names were used do not correspond or even include the possibility that "Abraham" is a derivative of "Brahma". A simple search on "Abraham" and it's examples in the ANE can demonstrate this easily.

An additional problem is that according to tradition, Abraham's name was initially "Abram". So whoever has written the above quotation is unfamiliar with the two variants, or mixing them arbitrarily.

I don't know who wrote the source you are quoting, but they are not a reliable or accurate source.

Abraham, as the spiritual "father" of three great traditions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) has been subjected to an endless stream of stories and folk-tales. It might be wisest, if one is looking for accuracy, to stick with the earliest attested accounts of him. Even with this, one can wonder if he ever really existed as a real person. At any rate, the linguistic details of his name (and Sarai's) do not match - in the slightest - those of Brahma and his sister (a false parallelism is being made with the letters and syllables being used). The idea is interesting, but it does not hold up to scrutiny.
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Old 07-04-2012, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Canada
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Abraham is a mythical figure he never existed
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Old 07-04-2012, 05:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meester-Chung View Post
Abraham is a mythical figure he never existed
You're probably correct.

(Though we typically reserve words such as "myth" for stories of the gods; but I know that colloquially it's used nowadays to mean "not true")

No matter his historicity, the stories that have been told about him have certainly had a lasting impact on the world (for better or worse), wouldn't you agree? In such a situation, it could be suggested that the "truthfulness" of Abraham the Patriarch has trumped any questions of his historicity. There's a famous quote somewhere about Moses which basically said that even if he didn't exist, someone meeting his exact profile as the founder of Mosaic Yahwism would have had to be invented.
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Old 05-05-2017, 10:36 AM
 
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Anagrams are frequently used in scriptures to hide things from the "profane" [read: normal people vs.Elite in the knows] so the A was probably moved to hide the fact Abram was Hindu and/or a Brahmin. Another track holds that the A means "without" as in without Brahm. If Abe left that culture, or was kicked out, then he would be "without Brahm." If indeed he destroyed his fathers idol statues, that alone in such a culture could get him expelled though the story given puts Abe in a good light as the founder of three religions in an entirely new locale under a new god. Interestingly, the older indus valley culture which has now been excavated shows a peaceful culture with no indication of war implements.
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Old 05-05-2017, 11:35 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meester-Chung View Post
Abraham is a mythical figure he never existed
Well, then there goes your Christianity...
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Old 05-06-2017, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Canada
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Well, then there goes your Christianity...


in the last few months i notice many of this pagan origin stuff where cooked up my new agers, theosophy people and those in the occult.

the so call origins are based on homophones words which sounds a like



an example is the debunking of the zietgeist portion that deal with jesus and sun gods



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dha9MZugXqI
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Old 05-07-2017, 02:11 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meester-Chung View Post
in the last few months i notice many of this pagan origin stuff where cooked up my new agers, theosophy people and those in the occult.

the so call origins are based on homophones words which sounds a like



an example is the debunking of the zietgeist portion that deal with jesus and sun gods



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dha9MZugXqI
I was referring to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meester-Chung View Post
Abraham is a mythical figure he never existed.
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