Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think anyone with a small amount of intelligence can understand that the Bible was written centuries ago...in a different era. Societal norms have changed and the world is a different place - and not all in a bad way. Technological advances, social progress, political changes, etc. mean that we can't interpret the Bible literally in every case. There are many passages that are outdated, for example passages concerning animal sacrifices or decisions about whether someone should be stoned.
I'm pretty sure society doesn't condone such acts, but I don't believe anyone should pick and choose which passages are still applicable today and which ones aren't. If these topics can be deemed outdated and not suitable in modern society, then others can as well...but often times religious leaders reference the Bible to justify a particular situation - such as women should be silent. Obviously women were not considered equals 2000 years ago and weren't valued citizens, but they are now. If you want to invoke a Bible passage and use that to try and make women subservient, then you should really follow the entire Bible word for word...even in situations that clearly no longer apply in 2007. Right?
What in the world could possibly make men more qualified for the ministry? There are A LOT of men who couldn't find their way out of a paper bag, yet they would make better ministers simply by virtue of their superior gender...
If I were choosing someone to lead the organization that I had dedicated my time, loyalty, money, etc. - MY LIFE to...then I would certainly want the most honest, intelligent, compassionate, responsible person possible. Gender shouldn't even be considered an issue.
I think anyone with a small amount of intelligence can understand that the Bible was written centuries ago...in a different era. Societal norms have changed and the world is a different place
Unfortunately intelligence and religion do not always go hand in hand. Especially if you believe that your god knows everything. Because every time an individual says something intelligent, but goes against holy scripture the believers will call him proud for going against a god's will or his intelligence.
Like the Jews did with Jesus; Jesus often criticised the Pharisees and teachers of the Laws of Moses. But when he died Jesus' followers were split off from Judaism because they, like Jesus himself, wanted to teach to non-Jews also.
Maybe if women want to become ministers they have to branch off from Christianity like Christians branched off from Judaism.
I'm going to side with ancchick on this one, and not because I believe what the bible says is true. I'm siding with her because this is again proof that Christians are conveniently picking and choosing their morals from the bible. Society's values change, and with that, so must people's interpretation of the bible. After all, how many women would continue to attend church if every time they asked something they were told to shut up and color? Not in today's society! And therefore, the church MUST change and adapt to societies morals. Again, this is another example, that if you want to take the bible word for word, near and dear to your heart, than you have to take the good, bad, and the ugly with it. This stinks of hypocrisy in my opinion.
If God had intended woman to have authority over man, why did he create Adam first... and then Eve? Women CAN teach Sunday School... as long as there are no baptized males present... if there are baptized males, then the woman is having authority over men. Genesis 3:16 clearly says: "Unto the woman He said... your desire shall be to your husband, and he shall rule over you." They can sing... because the men are singing too and we have been commanded to sing. They can give money because everyone gives money. However, only ONE person can preach... and women having authority over men is not what God intended... or else he would have created Eve first.
OK, answer this. Will God bless something with His good fruits if it goes against His own teachings? If not, then ministries like Joyce Myers would not be able to produce the fruit of the kingdom or the spirit. And they also would not get any blessings.
So if you are saying that this ministry is not of God because women cannot preach or teach to a man. Then who is it that allows the fruit of being saved to work in that ministry?
Satan cannot work against Satan unless his kingdom fall. For Satan to allow people to accept Christ is working against himself.
So who is it that allows the fruit of being saved in Joyce's ministry? God, or Satan?
I think anyone with a small amount of intelligence can understand that the Bible was written centuries ago...in a different era. Societal norms have changed and the world is a different place - and not all in a bad way. Technological advances, social progress, political changes, etc. mean that we can't interpret the Bible literally in every case. There are many passages that are outdated, for example passages concerning animal sacrifices or decisions about whether someone should be stoned.
I'm pretty sure society doesn't condone such acts, but I don't believe anyone should pick and choose which passages are still applicable today and which ones aren't. If these topics can be deemed outdated and not suitable in modern society, then others can as well...but often times religious leaders reference the Bible to justify a particular situation - such as women should be silent. Obviously women were not considered equals 2000 years ago and weren't valued citizens, but they are now. If you want to invoke a Bible passage and use that to try and make women subservient, then you should really follow the entire Bible word for word...even in situations that clearly no longer apply in 2007. Right?
Right! I absolutely agree with your post, and with GCS's as well... any woman who puts up with that stuff (remaining silent/subservient) deserves what she gets, IMO. Not to sound cruel, but really - this is the 21st century, for cryin' out loud! If a woman can run a company and run for president, we've earned the right to lead a congregation.
Btw, I tried to give you a rep, but...... "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Mrs. Garrison again."
Genesis 3:16 clearly says: "Unto the woman He said... your desire shall be to your husband, and he shall rule over you."
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue62
Since the Church of Christ is a new testament church, lets look at some new testament scripture
Galations3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Je
Okay, here's what really perplexes me when I'm debating with some Christians (not you, the post just reminded me of this!)... if anyone uses an Old Testament scripture to debate against them, they say "we're Christian, and only have to follow the NT." But then they'll use OT references to support their views! Is it just me, or is that weird? I don't mean any disrespect, but I find this kind of contradictory and confusing.
The Church of Christ uses the OT for history purposes but we by no means follow practices that are done in the OT. Yes, Galations 3:28 DOES say that... but we must follow each verse presented accordingly... too many people try to use Galations 3:28 to defend why they have a woman minister... which doesn't make sense... at all. This verse is just simply saying that God has no respects of people regarding salvation.
Hmmmmm... funny how certain other topics (won't name them here) always bring up the same 1-2 passages, which can also be interpreted in many ways. I think if you mentioned any subject under the sun, I could find an obscure Bible passage to defend AND disagree with it.
That's interesting, Gizmo. If I remember correctly, you practice Reformed Judaism, right? I never gave it any thought, that Reformed might have female rabbis. Always been to used to hearing about the Orthodox having males. Funny thing is, I've been doing some reading online lately, about what Jews, (generally-speaking), believe about God, Jesus, and Christianity. The reasons given for why they don't believe in Jesus as Messiah have been very interesting, and thought-provoking.
Yes, I'm a Reform (there's no -ed at the end ) Jew, and we have many female Rabbis... in fact, one of the Temples I attend has a female Rabbi who's also a lesbian. Reform Judaism is the most modern/liberal sect, and we believe in adjusting to changes within society. You can read about us here: Reform Judaism
The next most "modern" sect is Conservatism, which is kind of divided on this issue... the Orthodox, Chasidim & Lubavitchers are very traditional, and don't believe in women being equal - we're even forced to sit separately, usually in an enclosed room in the back. And this is one GOOD reason I practice Reform Judaism instead!
Bottom line - no man controls or has authority over me, especially considering I'm unmarried/single, very well-educated & self-sufficient... my father is the only man with "control" over me, but my mother has a bit more. Oh, and even my last three bosses have been women, LOL.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Maybe if women want to become ministers they have to branch off from Christianity like Christians branched off from Judaism.
