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View Poll Results: Do you believe that there is no god?
Yes 43 74.14%
No 11 18.97%
I don't know what I believe. 4 6.90%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-07-2012, 05:32 PM
 
9,325 posts, read 5,666,429 times
Reputation: 9357

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Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
Good, you made a claim that you do not believe in gods. Am I correct if I interpret that as you do not think there are gods*?

Second, here is where I notice how people show their emotional reaction when something is said or written that does not go in line with their views, ranting? Ranting is define as "to talk loudly and widely as defined in a dictionary". Another "To scold violently". Wow! are you sensitive or what?

Third, the OP ask if you believe there is no god? That is the subject of the OP. So you do not believe in a god, great. Then what is the basis of your claim. Can you prove that a god does not exist?

You want to take a stance of "I do not have to prove", OK, sit down and then why even contribute with any type of comment than neither prove or disprove the point. To me the OP simply want to see why others do not believe in god.

You claim is that you "lack belief in gods". What logic do you have that there is no probability of a higher intellectual mind that may be the originator of the existing universe? Take care.

*I refer to gods in a non religious way. Not so much because I pray or am thinking about what force thinks or wants from me. Because I believe it is probable that a designer exists does not mean I worship him/her.


Theist claim there is a god, and those who claim to KNOW as well as believe, are the ones with the burden of proof. For atheists, who are not gnostics, then they do not need to support their position because they are not making a positive statement.
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Old 07-07-2012, 05:43 PM
 
Location: Tampa
1,181 posts, read 546,174 times
Reputation: 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Theist claim there is a god, and those who claim to KNOW as well as believe, are the ones with the burden of proof. For atheists, who are not gnostics, then they do not need to support their position because they are not making a positive statement.
I am guessing you meant to say agnostic?

What you are saying is not true.

Read.

Definition of atheism | Reasonable Faith

If you claim to be an atheist, then shoulder the responsibilities that come with that belief.
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Old 07-07-2012, 05:48 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,191 posts, read 2,325,997 times
Reputation: 2408
I believe this discussion as in so many in the past about the same subject end up the same way. As I was reading I thought about something.

Maybe it is better to address it from the standpoint that the existence of god cannot be proved. However, the same of the claim of the opposite view.

Why not each side simply state their logic why it is probable their point is the more correct one. To me it childish to be going back and forth with fairies comments. State your logic. If anyone does not want to provide something in support of their views, why even comment at all with put down comments at all?

If you do not have anything to contribute, why comment like that? To feel superior? Arrogancy? To show how ignorant others are? What is it?

The OP was very clear in asking for your logic as to why you do not believe in the probability of a god. I am sure there may be somewhere those that are truly open minded and state their points.

For the sake of argument, I am not making a factual claim that god exists. I will say that when I look at nature desing is implied in all organisms. The design is so much more complex that what intelligent minds have created. Is it illogical to think that MAYBE it is possible that an intelligent mind came up with such awsome designs? Even Richard Dawkins acknowledged that it is intutitive to conclude that a nice garden desing must have had a gardener.

In life we all put faith in something even though we do not have completer 100% proof of something. Many crimes are solved very often on pure intuition and later proved with evidence. If an investigator only goes by actual evidence and nothing else, he will not be of any use. The same with the universe.

If you are waiting for you spouse at a restaurant do you state "My wife will be here in 15 minutes" or "I have no evidence that my wife will be here in 15 but it is probable that she will be here"? Most likely you will state it as a fact even though it is in the future. The same with the existence of god. Some people do believe there is enough deductive reasoning to conclude it reasonable that god exist. Another one. If you have kids in school and someone ask you where they are, do you respond "They are in school" or "I have not evidence that they are in school so I do not know". Based on previous experience to you it very probable that they are in school. Why close your mind when it comes to the existence of god and see what logic others have in making such claim instead of making fairy tale comments?

Sure, we may not have concrete evidence. However, intuition is a good way to start and go from there. What do the laws of physics say? What are the probabilities of systems existing out of nowhere on their own? A truly open mind is willing to say "Well, even though I do not have one hundred percent certainty that there was a designer, I am willing to listen what logic someone presents", not "Well, if you want to believe in fairy talel". A truly open mind does not simply sit down and start saying "I will beleive until you show me with facts". Well, that is not going to happen as I see it. Being that the case, why even bother to get involved in a discussion where you alread made up your mind?
A truly open mind will be open to other ways of explaining things. Who knows, maybe someone may come up with something that will make sense, not proof, just more sense. Take care.
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Old 07-07-2012, 05:52 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,191 posts, read 2,325,997 times
Reputation: 2408
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Theist claim there is a god, and those who claim to KNOW as well as believe, are the ones with the burden of proof. For atheists, who are not gnostics, then they do not need to support their position because they are not making a positive statement.
OK, got it. That what is your point in even commenting if you take the "You prove stance". Is it difficult for you to contribute you views on the subject or just want to take the easy way out of an argumentation? However, don't want to contribute, don't. Maybe others want to share their view as to why they do not beleive in god.
Atheists? Well, when they make a claim as such as compared to agnostics, they are putting faith on their claim just as theist do becaus neither has proog of either way in a complet total sense. Both conclued their views basing their faith on something. Take care.
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Old 07-07-2012, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Tampa
1,181 posts, read 546,174 times
Reputation: 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Not one of us has claimed that we have knowledge that a god doesn't exist
So are you saying that you don't know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
apparently you are too thick to understand the difference between disbelief and knowledge...
An ad hom attack? Why am I not surprised?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
How about making a contribution to your own thread....Do you know that a deity exists, or just believe it does?
Personally I know, but experiential evidence isn't good enough for some. I've posted my testimony before, but this thread isn't about theist claims.
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Old 07-07-2012, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Tampa
1,181 posts, read 546,174 times
Reputation: 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
OK, got it. That what is your point in even commenting if you take the "You prove stance". Is it difficult for you to contribute you views on the subject or just want to take the easy way out of an argumentation? However, don't want to contribute, don't. Maybe others want to share their view as to why they do not beleive in god.
Atheists? Well, when they make a claim as such as compared to agnostics, they are putting faith on their claim just as theist do becaus neither has proog of either way in a complet total sense. Both conclued their views basing their faith on something.
Exactly. An atheist bases his/her beliefs on faith, just as much as theists do.
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Old 07-07-2012, 07:30 PM
 
16,310 posts, read 14,812,175 times
Reputation: 7988
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro View Post
If you knew anything about oral tradition, then you would know that those "goat herders" would be killed if they lied. Try to stay on topic please. If you don't know if a god exists, then just say it. Don't try to change the subject.
Yea, religion has killed many that dare to question or express opposing views up until very recently.

OBTW, there are no gods, none of the hundreds and hundreds of gods passed down through oral tradition and folklore for many thousands of years. After all, there are hundreds (thousands) you don't believe in, right
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Old 07-07-2012, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
24,964 posts, read 18,553,357 times
Reputation: 9891
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro View Post
So are you saying that you don't know?
How many times or ways do I have to say it? I DO NOT know there is no god, but I don't believe there is
Quote:
An ad hom attack? Why am I not surprised?
Well you shouldn't be surprised that I called you thick, because no matter how many times I've explained that I made no statement of knowledge, you keep insisting that I have.
Quote:
Personally I know, but experiential evidence isn't good enough for some. I've posted my testimony before, but this thread isn't about theist claims.
You know? You have the burden of proof.....So prove it already...(Personal testimony is NOT proof)
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Old 07-07-2012, 07:45 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
24,964 posts, read 18,553,357 times
Reputation: 9891
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro View Post
I am guessing you meant to say agnostic?

What you are saying is not true.

Read.

Definition of atheism | Reasonable Faith

If you claim to be an atheist, then shoulder the responsibilities that come with that belief.
What the hell does William L Craig know about atheism?

a·the·ism
noun....The theory or belief that God does not exist.
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Old 07-07-2012, 08:00 PM
 
1,901 posts, read 1,112,308 times
Reputation: 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
What the hell does William L Craig know about atheism?

a·the·ism noun....The theory or belief that God does not exist.
Which dictionary source did you use to define this belief system, atheism? I'd like to see their definition for the agnostic belief system.
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