Gnostic Atheists. (genesis, bible, principle, science)

[Meester-Chung]

Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda

ok, my mistake then,

and how could anyone 'know' that God does not exist, that's just another form of faith, aka: the religion of atheism

1. there is no detectable evidence of a god

2. ancient prmitive people invent god and gods because they can't explain how the world around them works. the concept of belief in God is a creation of people's brains. recent advances in neuroscience shows this.

The Neurological Origins of Religious Belief | Going Mental | Big Think

[jdaelectro]

Originally Posted by Meester-Chung

2. ancient prmitive people invent god and gods because they can't explain how the world around them works.

We still can't explain how the world around us works. Just because we have cumulative knowledge today, doesn't mean people from ages ago were any less intelligent than people today. This is just an opinion of mine, but I believe we as a society today are a lot "dumber" than our ancient ancestors.

[Konraden]

Originally Posted by jdaelectro

This came up in a recent thread, that there are atheists (on this forum) that know god does not exist.

I am curious to get some input from you. Or even from an ex Gnostic Atheist.

Thanks.

I consider myself a gnostic atheist in concerns to current selection of gods in our history. They're either logically incoherent, demonstrably false, or pragmatically irrelevant. In all these cases, existence is impossible or pointless.

If you want to fathom a new god, feel free to do so. I'll analyze argument and evidence and follow with a decision.

[AREQUIPA]

Originally Posted by jdaelectro

We still can't explain how the world around us works. Just because we have cumulative knowledge today, doesn't mean people from ages ago were any less intelligent than people today. This is just an opinion of mine, but I believe we as a society today are a lot "dumber" than our ancient ancestors.

What an absurd remark. All the knowledge we have discovered about the way the world works is dismissed just Like That using, presumably, an appeal to those questions that still aren't answered. Pray tell, just what aspect of how the world works do you think we can't explain? I do hope that you will not argue that we can't explain Why we are here or what the Meaning of our lives is - when the obvious answer is that the only natural meaning and why is to survive and the Higher Meanings are those we decide for ourselves.

In just what way are we 'dumber' than our ancient ancestors? While the general bod in the street can irritate by his self - centred focussing on his own personal trivia, why should we suppose that 'dumber' than the bod in the streets of our ancient world? I do hope that it isn't because he unquestioningly believed in one of more of the invisible humans in which you evidently believe.

p.s "doesn't mean people from ages ago were any less intelligent than people today." Of course nobody is claiming that we are any more intelligent now than we were centuries ago -in terms of sheer IQ. We have used that intelligence to build up the 'cumulative knowledge' that you correctly refer to. By dismissing that as airly you do, you are in a perverse way actually decrying the intelligence of those ancestors which you also seem to praise.

and a conclusion..it looks to me that what you are actually doing (perhaps without knowing it) is praising the lack of knowledge of the ancients which allowed them to believe in gods rather than seeing that the world worked in natural ways. Isn't that it, electro?

[Meester-Chung]

god only exist in people's brains

[jdaelectro]

Originally Posted by AREQUIPA

All the knowledge we have discovered about the way the world works is dismissed just Like That using, presumably, an appeal to those questions that still aren't answered.

It's true. What we think we know all breaks down at the sub atomic level.

Originally Posted by AREQUIPA

Pray tell, just what aspect of how the world works do you think we can't explain?

Why do things have mass? Yes they have found the so called "god particle", but what is powering that? More answers lead to even more questions.

Originally Posted by AREQUIPA

I do hope that you will not argue that we can't explain Why we are here or what the Meaning of our lives is - when the obvious answer is that the only natural meaning and why is to survive and the Higher Meanings are those we decide for ourselves.

I disagree. all of creation was meant to glorify God, and in the end, it will. The perversion of the creation is our fault i.e. disease. Like you say yourself, "Higher meaning we decide for ourselves". How is that working for us? Yes we cure disease, but then a new disease pops up. Science is a double edged sword. We would not be capable of exterminating the entire population of the earth with out science. I will leave playing god up to God, or as you would put it, establishing a higher meaning.

Originally Posted by AREQUIPA

and a conclusion..it looks to me that what you are actually doing (perhaps without knowing it) is praising the lack of knowledge of the ancients which allowed them to believe in gods rather than seeing that the world worked in natural ways. Isn't that it, electro?

People will ALWAYS believe in God. It is natural. And I think meester chung shows that it is natural with his brain science link. Like it says in the Word of God, you just choose to suppress the truth and what comes naturally, AREQUIPA.

Btw I am curious as to what significance the city of Arequipa holds for you.

[AREQUIPA]

Originally Posted by jdaelectro

It's true. What we think we know all breaks down at the sub atomic level.

This is a common misconception or misdirection. Yes, it is true that the processes and realities that work in our world all seem very different at sub -atomic level but that does not alter the fact that what we know about the the way they work in our world is still there and knowable. A wall you built does not vanish overnight just because we have discovered indeterminacy, any more than history changes so that the census of Quirinus was held while Herod was alive just because relativity was discovered. What we know works, still works.

Why do things have mass? Yes they have found the so called "god particle", but what is powering that? More answers lead to even more questions.

Quite true, but that does not alter the fact that the physics of mass work reliably and predictably. It is the old ploy of using the unsettling oddness of sub atomic particles, Quantum and the suspicion that matter is actually mostly nothing to try to discredit 'what science knows' in the hope that all sorts of theist claims can be made to look credible.

I disagree. all of creation was meant to glorify God, and in the end, it will. The perversion of the creation is our fault i.e. disease. Like you say yourself, "Higher meaning we decide for ourselves". How is that working for us? Yes we cure disease, but then a new disease pops up. Science is a double edged sword. We would not be capable of exterminating the entire population of the earth with out science. I will leave playing god up to God, or as you would put it, establishing a higher meaning.

Obviously, I am not going to buy any of this. My response to you is that I made to the society - rejecting hippies in the seventies. 'Bog off for a decade and live without the benefits of this corrupt society and see how you like it.'

People will ALWAYS believe in God. It is natural. And I think meester chung shows that it is natural with his brain science link. Like it says in the Word of God, you just choose to suppress the truth and what comes naturally, AREQUIPA.

Belief in a myth even if it is instinctive will not make it true. It is a bit sad that the argument seems to be that the herd are going to stay deluded despite the best we can do. I do not believe that is so. I believe that people do want to know that what they believe is based on more than faith and I believe in human potential to better themselves.

Btw I am curious as to what significance the city of Arequipa holds for you.

I had the habit of using places I visited as passwords (hackers pl. note - I have been to other places since then ). Some years ago, I visited Peru and went to stay in Arequipa for a week. Since my password here was a series of numbers I used my password as my user-name.

[Heathen Hammer]

Originally Posted by jdaelectro

People will ALWAYS believe in God. It is natural. And I think meester chung shows that it is natural with his brain science link. Like it says in the Word of God, you just choose to suppress the truth and what comes naturally, AREQUIPA.

Btw I am curious as to what significance the city of Arequipa holds for you.

Believing in it does not make it true. So it's not accurate to say they are suppressing a truth.

[jdaelectro]

Originally Posted by Konraden

I consider myself a gnostic atheist in concerns to current selection of gods in our history. They're either logically incoherent, demonstrably false, or pragmatically irrelevant. In all these cases, existence is impossible or pointless.

Okay the floor is yours. Prove that Christ didn't exist and prove that He is not God.

[Konraden]

Originally Posted by jdaelectro

Okay the floor is yours. Prove that Christ didn't exist and prove that He is not God.

I merely have to show that Jesus is not your version of God, which is simple in the fact that it is physically impossible for a dead body to come back to life as a living human. It is against the laws of physics.