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OK, you're all right. I didn't think it through. I take back my sentiments. Let's keep them separate after all. I was thinking about a benevolent church/state. Probably not possible...
OK, you're all right. I didn't think it through. I take back my sentiments. Let's keep them separate after all. I was thinking about a benevolent church/state. Probably not possible...
Yep, history has shown as much when looking at theorcracies or religion/state marriages throughout the ages.
What Christians do you speak of? All of them? Baptists? Coptic? Catholics?
Take your pick. Christians are the only religious group who oppose separation of church and state. This thread is addressed to non-Christians so which particular flavor of Christians doesn't particularly matter.
Take your pick. Christians are the only religious group who oppose separation of church and state. This thread is addressed to non-Christians so which particular flavor of Christians doesn't particularly matter.
I understand who this is addressed to, but you are incorrect stating Christians are the only group. You also make too broad of an assumption regarding Christians because I have yet hear of Coptics, Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, or Byzantine Catholics stating they oppose the separation in the US. If anything, many people of all denominations want the separation due to the fact there are different denominations.
The media hypes it up, and really only a minority few push this opposition, mostly coming from protestants and its branches (my opinion).
As far as non-Christians, you can easily Google and find where Jewish and Islamic people have tried to use their religious laws in court. Also you can see that in many countries with a sizable religious group there are always attempts by them to impose their religious laws on everyone.
As a note, I am Eastern orthodox and I am for the separation to the point I do not think Christmas should be a national holiday (given I do not even celebrate it on the 25th). I do not know anyone that opposes the separation, so this reason alone is why I do state you are incorrect assuming all Christians oppose the separation, and that even at that, you group everyone together as if we all think the same.
Speaking as a Muslim and only for myself. It is impossible for me to separate Religion and State. Also there is no need for me to, I can follow my religion without breaking any State laws.
I have no need of the State making what I follow to be the "Law of the Land" There is no need for any earthly or government legal system to "force" me to follow Islam, it is a path I follow by choice. As long as I am not violating any government laws I have no need to separate religion from government.
I understand who this is addressed to, but you are incorrect stating Christians are the only group. You also make too broad of an assumption regarding Christians because I have yet hear of Coptics, Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, or Byzantine Catholics stating they oppose the separation in the US. If anything, many people of all denominations want the separation due to the fact there are different denominations.
Yes, there are liberal and enlightened sects of Christianity who support a secular government and this thread obviously isn't about them. Nitpicking the point has become tiresome and irrelevant to the topic of this thread, which is directed at NON CHRISTIANS.
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The media hypes it up, and really only a minority few push this opposition, mostly coming from protestants and its branches (my opinion).
Christian Evangelicals and Dominionists (for example) are not a minority few in this country. They make up a major portion of the Republican/Conservative population. And they are vehemently in favor of a Christian theocracy and the destruction of the 1st amendment's wall of separation.
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As far as non-Christians, you can easily Google and find where Jewish and Islamic people have tried to use their religious laws in court.
Isolated incidents, and not quite the same level as what the Christians are doing. Please show me where the Jews and Muslims are lobbying en masse against separation of church and state as Christians are.
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Also you can see that in many countries with a sizable religious group there are always attempts by them to impose their religious laws on everyone.
I'm not talking about other countries, I'm talking about the United States. Our Constitution expressly forbids such imposition and tyranny of the majority, especially in regards to religion.
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As a note, I am Eastern orthodox and I am for the separation to the point I do not think Christmas should be a national holiday (given I do not even celebrate it on the 25th). I do not know anyone that opposes the separation, so this reason alone is why I do state you are incorrect assuming all Christians oppose the separation, and that even at that, you group everyone together as if we all think the same.
Except I never assumed all Christians opposed it. I have in fact stated openly on these forums that I have friends and associates who are Christian secularists. That doesn't change the fact that it is exclusively *Christians* who oppose SOCAS.
Could we please get some more NON CHRISTIANS to address the OP? That would be nice.
Speaking as a Muslim and only for myself. It is impossible for me to separate Religion and State. Also there is no need for me to, I can follow my religion without breaking any State laws.
You can under our secular government, yes. Assuming you do not violate the 1st amendment in doing so.
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I have no need of the State making what I follow to be the "Law of the Land" There is no need for any earthly or government legal system to "force" me to follow Islam, it is a path I follow by choice. As long as I am not violating any government laws I have no need to separate religion from government.
I think you fail to see the point ...
Not separating religion from government IS violating our government laws.
And without such a separation of religion and government, odds are you would still be violating the laws of whatever religion controlled/influenced the government, even if it were some Muslim sect which held different views than your own.
OK, you're all right. I didn't think it through. I take back my sentiments. Let's keep them separate after all. I was thinking about a benevolent church/state. Probably not possible...
It was the first thing that popped into our heads. Of course it's a slippery - slope argument, but slippery slope is one of the least fallacious of the fallacies because slippery - slope situations go on all the time and we can see the progressive push for more and more power and control or more and more of a slide into hostility and aggression and - sure - it's nice to be able to point to the Christian propaganda stuck up all over and say what a crock it is until one day a blasphemy law is passed...
Not a Christian here, and I am vehemently opposed to merging of church and state. Many of my non-Christian friends feel the same way, although of course I should only speak for myself.
Take your pick. Christians are the only religious group who oppose separation of church and state. This thread is addressed to non-Christians so which particular flavor of Christians doesn't particularly matter.
None of the Christians I know oppose separation of church and state. Yes, apparently some people who are Christians do, or they seem to when wanting to do things like erect giant Ten Commandments sculptures at courthouses. But not as a "group", they don't, so yes, which particular flavor of Christians does matter. It's not "nit-picking" when you blithely insult an entire group with a statement akin to "all black people steal watermelons". To many of us, the separation of church and state is something we hold very dear, and to be accused of opposing it is a slur.
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