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I've devoted plenty of time to both, perhaps more to the bible since Evolution doesn't pose a threat to me. Plus, it would be irresponsible of me to dismiss something personally let alone publicly without studying it in proper detail.
[quote=ibcwife;1646521]And I find it utterly amazing, silly and absurd that you really think every living thing on earth came from a single celled ameba! And that we (humans) came from chimps!
QUOTE]
My point entirely. Would you find it amazing, silly, and absurd if I told you that the world was in fact... older than 6,000 years???
Because you've threatened children's educations in recent years and the whole line of thinking is having dangerous and potentially yet to be seen dangerous effects on society.
I see we have a Christian hater on our hands. We now threaten children's education? So how do you expect to stop it? End the Christain belief in ten years like Brain Sapien wants? You sound just like him.
I sympathize with him because of statements like this that show people have the arrogance to disregard something that they clearly haven't bothered to even try and understand.
So everyone must beieve as you do? I disagree with you because I choose to.
How do you expect to change the world to your way of thinking as you seem to imply that everyone should do?
I've devoted plenty of time to both, perhaps more to the bible since Evolution doesn't pose a threat to me. Plus, it would be irresponsible of me to dismiss something personally let alone publicly without studying it in proper detail.
So how does the bible, and bible believers pose a threat to you? And what do you plan to do with the bible, and those bible believers? Have a plan yet? Or do you just go with the flow at the RSS site?
When people say that creationists are threatening children's education, it is because creationism is a specific Christian belief, teaching it as a fact or scientific theory opens the door to other ideas that are based on faith being inserted into children's education. While evolutionists can respect you for the passion you bring to your arguments, children are not in the position to argue against teachers in school. The United States came into being because people wanted freedom of religion, and while I hear over and over again that Christianity is the primary religion of the United States, which is not a statement I am advocating, the problem is that Christianity embraces endless churches and beliefs. Catholics, Baptists, Presbyterians, Methodists, and so on. Some believe the Bible is literal truth, some believe it is allegorical; as I've said before, many scientists who believe in evolution also believe in God. So teaching creationism isn't teaching Christian beliefs, it is teaching one set of Christian beliefs. Creationists also do not treat creationism as a scientific theory, they treat it as fact. Facts they believe in, but not necessarily the majority of Americans believe in. Creationists have ample opportunity at home and church to emphasize to their school children that evolution is theory, not fact,
and schools teach it as a theory, a theory that changes as we develop more information. If you put creationism in school, and creationism is not theory but fact, then how does someone who doesn't agree with creationism explain to their child that their school is lying to them, which is what someone who believes in evolution would have to do? Do you see the difference, on the one hand we have science teachers teaching children empirical method, science is theories that can be disproven, evolution is one of those theories. On the other hand we have teachers teaching children that creation happened as it is literally explained in the Bible, even if you don't happen to be Christian or if your Church elaborates on the Bible's explanation of creation, with no room for empirical discussion. As I've said before, creationism is faith, not science. When you start teaching Christian faith in public classrooms, you are imposing one particular religious belief on millions of people who don't share that religious belief. You are effectively robbing them of their freedom of religion in favor of your own. The rules against religion in schools is not to take away your rights, it's to strike a balance so that in the long run everyone enjoys the right to believe as they choose. That's why PhillyChief and others don't want creationism to have precedence over evolutionism in the classroom, because they don't want your beliefs to have precedence over theirs.
1) Objecting to or questioning creationism makes me a "christian hater"
2) Objecting to the danger of creationism taught in schools implies that I advocate ending the christian faith in 10 years
3) Objecting to people who disregard something without carefully examining it first naturally means I think everybody should just adopt my thinking
4) I, Brian Sapient and the RRS are one and the same.
Since he's asked some questions though, I'll answer them directly since that's the responsible thing to do in a discussion: So how does the bible, and bible believers pose a threat to you?
The bible itself doesn't pose a threat, nor do all christians. What poses a threat is impositions on others by christians. Such impositions include christian icons on government property, christian attempts to replace education with christian teaching, assertions that the US is a christian nation and/or founded as a christian nation, political organizations that seek to replace the Republic of the US with a christian theocracy, taxpayer funds used for christian organizations, pending lawsuits of abuses in the military by christians, objections to equal rights for homosexuals, the Catholic 5 controlling the Supreme Court, causing the US to fall behind the world in stem cell research, blue laws, state laws prohibiting atheists from holding public office, and I could go on.
And what do you plan to do with the bible, and those bible believers? Have a plan yet?
No, I don't have a plan nor am I trying to formulate one. I just would like christians to not impose their beliefs on others. That's it. I don't advocate harm for people or books.
Or do you just go with the flow at the RSS site?
I'm assuming you mean RRS? It's an interesting site, yes. They're very frontline and as Philadelphians, are quite outspoken and acerbic.
I don't completely agree with everything they say or do. For instance, I think they should travel to DE to meet me rather than I travel to north Philly (um, yuk) to meet them and more importantly, being a Chiefs fan is so much better than being an Eagles fan.
As an independent thinker I honestly can't think of any person or group I completely agree with.
I'm a biologist and have studied and worked with evolution, directly and indirectly, for some time.
First, I'll preface my response with what evolution is NOT. Evolution is not within the scope of the origin of life -- that is the field of abiogenesis. Additionally, evolution is not about how species arise -- that is speciation (which is a result of evolution).
Secondly, we must define what evolution is and how it differs from speciation. Evolution is defined as change in gene frequencies among a population over time. This is a fact. Every birth, death, mutation, etc, within a population is evolution in action. The theory is the mechanisms by which these changes occur: natural selection, genetic drift, gene flow, etc.
Modern biology is built upon the foundation of evolutionary biology. Evolution explains why bacteria and other microbes become resistant to antibiotics, why species are able to adapt to new and varied environments/habitats, and how new species arise at a genetic level.
When people say that creationists are threatening children's education, it is because creationism is a specific Christian belief, teaching it as a fact or scientific theory opens the door to other ideas that are based on faith being inserted into children's education. While evolutionists can respect you for the passion you bring to your arguments, children are not in the position to argue against teachers in school. The United States came into being because people wanted freedom of religion, and while I hear over and over again that Christianity is the primary religion of the United States, which is not a statement I am advocating, the problem is that Christianity embraces endless churches and beliefs. Catholics, Baptists, Presbyterians, Methodists, and so on. Some believe the Bible is literal truth, some believe it is allegorical; as I've said before, many scientists who believe in evolution also believe in God. So teaching creationism isn't teaching Christian beliefs, it is teaching one set of Christian beliefs. Creationists also do not treat creationism as a scientific theory, they treat it as fact. Facts they believe in, but not necessarily the majority of Americans believe in. Creationists have ample opportunity at home and church to emphasize to their school children that evolution is theory, not fact,
and schools teach it as a theory, a theory that changes as we develop more information. If you put creationism in school, and creationism is not theory but fact, then how does someone who doesn't agree with creationism explain to their child that their school is lying to them, which is what someone who believes in evolution would have to do? Do you see the difference, on the one hand we have science teachers teaching children empirical method, science is theories that can be disproven, evolution is one of those theories. On the other hand we have teachers teaching children that creation happened as it is literally explained in the Bible, even if you don't happen to be Christian or if your Church elaborates on the Bible's explanation of creation, with no room for empirical discussion. As I've said before, creationism is faith, not science. When you start teaching Christian faith in public classrooms, you are imposing one particular religious belief on millions of people who don't share that religious belief. You are effectively robbing them of their freedom of religion in favor of your own. The rules against religion in schools is not to take away your rights, it's to strike a balance so that in the long run everyone enjoys the right to believe as they choose. That's why PhillyChief and others don't want creationism to have precedence over evolutionism in the classroom, because they don't want your beliefs to have precedence over theirs.
DC
Has evolution been observed? Nope. Why? It does not happen overnight, correct? So which takes more faith:
1) A God you cannot see.
2) Time that no one can comprehend for a theory that cannot be observed?
1) Objecting to or questioning creationism makes me a "christian hater"
2) Objecting to the danger of creationism taught in schools implies that I advocate ending the christian faith in 10 years
3) Objecting to people who disregard something without carefully examining it first naturally means I think everybody should just adopt my thinking
4) I, Brian Sapient and the RRS are one and the same.
Since he's asked some questions though, I'll answer them directly since that's the responsible thing to do in a discussion: So how does the bible, and bible believers pose a threat to you?
The bible itself doesn't pose a threat, nor do all christians. What poses a threat is impositions on others by christians. Such impositions include christian icons on government property, christian attempts to replace education with christian teaching, assertions that the US is a christian nation and/or founded as a christian nation, political organizations that seek to replace the Republic of the US with a christian theocracy, taxpayer funds used for christian organizations, pending lawsuits of abuses in the military by christians, objections to equal rights for homosexuals, the Catholic 5 controlling the Supreme Court, causing the US to fall behind the world in stem cell research, blue laws, state laws prohibiting atheists from holding public office, and I could go on.
And what do you plan to do with the bible, and those bible believers? Have a plan yet?
No, I don't have a plan nor am I trying to formulate one. I just would like christians to not impose their beliefs on others. That's it. I don't advocate harm for people or books.
Or do you just go with the flow at the RSS site?
I'm assuming you mean RRS? It's an interesting site, yes. They're very frontline and as Philadelphians, are quite outspoken and acerbic.
I don't completely agree with everything they say or do. For instance, I think they should travel to DE to meet me rather than I travel to north Philly (um, yuk) to meet them and more importantly, being a Chiefs fan is so much better than being an Eagles fan.
As an independent thinker I honestly can't think of any person or group I completely agree with.
If this is what you believe, and you would probably claim you are not bias in it. Then go to my "Allah the Creator" thread and lets see you make the same claims about Islam. Which by the way, attacks evolution almost eaxactly like the Christian creation does. I left examples of that as well.
So if you want to prove that evolution is not bias against the Christian God, than you also make those same claims there as you do here. And remember, there are Islamic members at this forum.
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