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I was unpacking the hundred or so boxes of books that are piled up here from the move, awaiting the new shelves of the new house. One that I found was a book I had as a child, written shortly after Apollo 11 entitled We Came in Peace. For the time, it was afascinating book and as a child whose toys included a telescope, microscope, chemistry set and binary computer, and other similar things, the book was read and reread until the binding fell aprat. I later acquired another copy in the 80's more for sentimental value, as the data and info is obsolete for the most part.
Interesting though is a description of the planets, stating that Mars is fascinating because it may have plant life on it. This reflecting the theories of popular science in the 60's.
To this date we have found no living organisms within our own solar system, and we theorize that such conditions condusive to life as we define it exist within this solar system. Yet we continue to explore, and science will alter and change it's theories as more data is found.
Interesting, because for me, this course of thought told me that there is no god in the world or universe, at least not as defined by our christian parents. There is no evidence, no logic and no data that would indicate such a being. Some point to ancient myths and ancient writings, but like the NASA book in my collection, the information is out of date and obsolete. We have no proof, no reason to believe that such a creature as the Christian god exists at all. We cannot use the Bible or any other argument as such, because it too has more flaws than reason. And the religious fanatics who have tried to justify their faith to me thoguhout the years, only demonstrate, for the mot part, their ignorance, their lack of knowledge and above all else, their lack of a definition of what a god should or could be.......they, in there limited religious circles, don't even realize that such a creature is beyond the definition of man's limited experience.
As for life in the solar system outside of us, it is possible but not probable, and inn fact it is extremely unlikely. As for a "god" that controls everything and creates the universe, it too is extremely unlikely. SOme will base their entire faith on the on in a trillion chance that it does exist, but we do not base our theories or philosophies or lives on something that is extremely unlikely.
Last night I bought a lottery ticket with a jackpot of over 200 million dollars. The odds of winning are only a billionth of a percent more likelly by purchasing a ticket as opposed to not purchasing one. I will not start planning my life now for being a multimillionaire Sunday morning, because I do not base my life on a statistical improbablilty.
Such it will be with going to churrch Sunday morning. There is a billionth of a chance that my hour spent there will somehow enhancce my life, soul or guarantee me some grreat afterlife should the great Jesus return next Tuesday (which would only statistically SUCK should I wil the lottery Saturday night and have some guy show up from the sky and make it all for not on Tuesday), I would set the odds at taht happening as impossible as in 1 in 10 to the 198th power
So is the major conflict with science and religion. Both seek to improve the qulaity of life, with varied results. Both attempt to explain the world, the universe, science with methods, testing and reason, religion with myth and wishful thinking. Some people tend to lean towards one more than the others but some mix both, and in the end, it is science that cures illnesses, puts people to live in space, and breaks the very secret codes of life and the universe as we know it.
Religion, well, for me, does not do so much. Which is why I still have my first science book as a kid, but not my first Bible.
Funny..But no matter what book you get when you are a child..in the reality you are born into...the elemental elements are before you, and setup so you can be what you were born to be....how they came into effect and or existance...well you make up your own mind....but I will say that plants are very important entities...and the Bible makes note of them...and commands a state that God made you to tend and keep the Garden prestine and clean...with all plants ...especially the green ones.
Science does not really say this....perhaps because science is not learned on the complexity of Plants and how they interact with the Earth, and the creator of everything....So...I say read as many books as you wish....but do not toss away the Bible...or any holy scripture....but use them to formulate truth or False answers as to what, when , where, and why...and if need be who...made all this for you, and his intentions for making humans....which is all dispelled in the Genesis....So you need not be deceived...as it has been writen.
You think that's good... you should hear what my antique Victorian era "Comprendium of Profitable Knowledge" says about the inhabitants of the moon.
It just goes to show that Science is a journey, not an end-point. In another 50-100 years today's knowledge base will probably seem just as absurd.
BTW, it's also why I love Science over Religion... Science is at least willing to be wrong.
I think it was the character of Thorne, in Michael Crichton's The Lost World, that said something similar:
"A hundred years from now, people will look back at us and laugh. They'll say, 'You know what people used to believe? They believed in photons and electrons. Can you imagine anything so silly?' They'll have a good laugh, because by then there will be newer and better fantasies".
I can't help but think he's right, in a strange way. Right now, we call them 'photons' and 'electrons', but they're really just a convenient way of explaining 'how things work'. In a century or two, we'll replace the photon-and-electron theory with something else that will itself eventually be replaced -- by yet another, even 'better' method that will, in its own time, fade into obscurity and 'silliness'.
I think it was the character of Thorne, in Michael Crichton's The Lost World, that said something similar:
"A hundred years from now, people will look back at us and laugh. They'll say, 'You know what people used to believe? They believed in photons and electrons. Can you imagine anything so silly?' They'll have a good laugh, because by then there will be newer and better fantasies".
I can't help but think he's right, in a strange way. Right now, we call them 'photons' and 'electrons', but they're really just a convenient way of explaining 'how things work'. In a century or two, we'll replace the photon-and-electron theory with something else that will itself eventually be replaced -- by yet another, even 'better' method that will, in its own time, fade into obscurity and 'silliness'.
This doesn't really line up with history. What have we replaced Newtonian physics with 400 years later? Nothing, because it still works in a vast majority of cases we care about. Maxwell's equations? Same thing. Hubble's law? Same thing.
When we get something that works, we don't discard it. Sure, there are cases where these models aren't accurate enough, but that doesn't mean they aren't useful and won't stick around.
Next comment, different subject, but worth putting up on the blackboard and then having the illiterates who disrespect science's efforts and knowledge, and it's open ability to adjust and refine it's information, write it out 100 times...
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC
When we get something that works, we don't discard it. Sure, there are cases where these models aren't accurate enough, but that doesn't mean they aren't useful and won't stick around.
This doesn't really line up with history. What have we replaced Newtonian physics with 400 years later? Nothing, because it still works in a vast majority of cases we care about. Maxwell's equations? Same thing. Hubble's law? Same thing.
When we get something that works, we don't discard it. Sure, there are cases where these models aren't accurate enough, but that doesn't mean they aren't useful and won't stick around.
Well, perhaps you hit the proverbial metallic fastening device on the broad end with the #2 ball pean hammer there.....
Some of us have abandonded Christianity quite reasonably because IT DOES NOT WORK FOR US!
Perhaps we have learned that religion, the worldviews, dogmas, rules and the administration of such simply do not apply to life in the 21st century, at least not as presented by the current choices ! Perhaps we have reasoned that we do not believe in a 'god" as described by such, and that as such, we see no evidence, and no benefit of having such a diety, in fact, we often find the involvement and belief of such an entity (like the Biblcal god for example0 to be detrimental to the human experience.
Science continues to look for new ways to improve the human experience. religion, at least Christianity, forces people to apologize for being human and makes a foundation of fear and guilt the primus for human existance. Such a foundation is niether healthy nor neccesary in our world.
We abandon religion, because not only does it fail to explain the how and why , but it replaces those questions with a sense of guilt for daring to explore and find reasonable truthful facts which may well oppose those myths taught by religions. Science, on the other hand, is dedicated not just to exploration and answers, but giving us those items we need to preserve and improve the quality of life, everything from healthier foods to medications. religion may claim to save a person's "Soul" but this is something purely conceptual, and science has pointed to very strong evidence that there is no afterlife, at least not in a conscious state as we are experiencing now.
I leave you with this.
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