Americans United Warns Fire Department To Stop Using Trucks To Transport Religious Statue (churches, LDS)

[FlashTheCash]

Americans United Warns New Jersey Fire Department To Stop Using Trucks To Transport Religious Statue

Thursday, September 27, 2007

Department's Decision To Haul Depiction Of Virgin Mary Violates Church-State Separation, Says Watchdog Group

Americans United for Separation of Church and State has told a New Jersey fire department to stop transporting a nine-foot-tall statue of the Virgin Mary to area churches.

Americans United received complaints after media accounts detailed how members of the Jackson Mills Fire Company transported the statue, known as “Our Lady of America, the Immaculate Virgin,” to New York City for a Sept. 11 observance and then to a church in Howell, N.J.

In New York, the firefighters, dressed in their official uniforms, carried the statue into the Church of St. Peter and helped install it near the altar. In Howell, the firefighters transported the statue to St. Veronica’s Roman Catholic Church and used a fire truck, with lights flashing and sirens blaring, as part of a processional that culminated in the parking lot of the church.

The motorcade also included fire trucks from nearby Jackson Township and police vehicles. The firefighters then joined members of the Knights of Columbus in carrying the statue into the church, and the event concluded with a special mass.

The Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United, said private vehicles should have been used to transport the religious icon.

“Have these guys never heard of U-Haul?” Lynn asked. “The use of this statue for worship is a purely religious matter and should be handled through private channels. No arm of the government need be involved.”

Lynn pointed out that the statue, which is touring the country, was transported from its home in St. Louis by a volunteer driver with a private vehicle. The same policy should have been followed in New Jersey, he said.

In a Sept. 26 letter to Jackson Fire Chief Mike Lubertazzi, Americans United attorneys pointed out that the activity surrounding the statue is wholly religious and should not be aided, endorsed or promoted by units of government.

AU also rejects claims that the firefighters engaged in these actions during their free time, noting that they used official vehicles and wore their uniforms.

“The fire company’s actions also conveyed an unmistakable message of religious endorsement generally, and endorsement of the Catholic faith in particular,” AU attorneys Alex Luchenitser and Heather Weaver wrote to Lubertazzi. “Firefighters not only transported the religious statue to New York City in official department vehicles, but they also donned their official department uniforms, including their fire-department badges, while doing so. As members of the public stood by to watch, the firefighters helped carry the statue into St. Peter’s, where they installed it in the church’s sanctuary, smiling and posing for photographs afterward.”

Noting the similar activity in Howell, the letter asserted, “A reasonable observer would perceive that the fire company has placed its imprimatur on the ‘Our Lady of America’ statue….Indeed, the department appears to have become a de facto cosponsor of the statue’s tour of the New York and New Jersey region.”

The statue’s travels are sponsored by a group called the Our Lady of America Center. The organization based the statue on appearances of the Virgin Mary claimed by an Ohio nun, Sister Mary Ephrem, who died in 2000. The nun first claimed to have received visions of the Virgin Mary in 1956. Her followers believe that if the statue is installed at the Shrine of the Immaculate Conception in Washington, D.C., the country will be protected from evil.

Americans United: Americans United Warns New Jersey Fire Department To Stop Using Trucks To Transport Religious Statue

[Padgett2]

No matter that it was in a private vehicle manned by volunteers, anyone watching would assume that it was paid for with tax payers funding because of the firefighters in their official uniforms. It looked as if it were a case of state supported religious activity.

Not everyone would know that those men were volunteers.

[b. frank]

Originally Posted by Padgett2

No matter that it was in a private vehicle manned by volunteers.

Unless I read the above post wrong, it says that the private vehicle was used back in St. Louis. In New Jersey, it was a tax-funded fire engine, right?

The firemen may have been volunteering their time, but they clearly made this an "official" operation of the fire dept.

I had never heard of the Americans United for Separation of Church and State.
Where do I sign up?

[satanoid]

My tax dollars pay for the firefighters uniforms, and the fire truck.

They belong to ME and my fellow taxpayers.

Use them for the job we pay you to do, or not at all.

[SergeantL]

Originally Posted by Padgett2

No matter that it was in a private vehicle manned by volunteers, anyone watching would assume that it was paid for with tax payers funding because of the firefighters in their official uniforms. It looked as if it were a case of state supported religious activity.

Not everyone would know that those men were volunteers.

That's not what I am reading. It seems clear they used taxpayer vehicles with taxpayer fuel in the tanks and caused wear and tear on the vehicles at taxpayer expense. I don't care about the uniforms unless there is a city policy or state law prohibiting the wearing of uniforms for other than official reasons.

Personally, I don't care about any of this, but allow me to throw a little gasoline on the fire. Assume that Mitt Romney is elected president. Assume he gathers volunteer pilots and flight attendants and has them fly Air Force One out to Utah, where they pick up the LDS President and fly him back to DC for a religious event. As one can see, the scale of this single event makes it objectionable. Now, picture this; the event in which the firefighters were involved is played-out a few thousand times across the United States. One begins to see how much fuel it is costing the taxpayer. In short, we can pay for fuel at 10 gallons an event times three thousand, or we can do a round trip to Utah from DC on Air Force One. It begins to cost the same.

[b. frank]

Originally Posted by SergeantL

Assume that Mitt Romney is elected president. Assume he gathers volunteer pilots and flight attendants and has them fly Air Force One out to Utah, where they pick up the LDS President and fly him back to DC for a religious event. As one can see, the scale of this single event makes it objectionable. Now, picture this; the event in which the firefighters were involved is played-out a few thousand times across the United States. One begins to see how much fuel it is costing the taxpayer. In short, we can pay for fuel at 10 gallons an event times three thousand, or we can do a round trip to Utah from DC on Air Force One. It begins to cost the same.

How about this idea: taxpayers pay nothing for the LDS president to go anywhere - he's got legions of religious followers to pay his way already.

Same goes for a religious statue.

[SergeantL]

Originally Posted by satanoid

My tax dollars pay for the uniforms, They belong to ME and my fellow taxpayers.

Really, then you owe me roughly $57,000. You see, I was told that I had to pay for my uniforms, and I had to pay for maintaining them. No, change that to $357,000. My wife's time for washing and pressing YOUR uniforms over 35-years is worth something. Oh, and I forgot; add another $100,000 to pay for 35-years worth of hot water and electricity to wash YOUR uniforms and another $30,000 in cleaning bills for YOUR stupid wool uniforms.

[b. frank]

Originally Posted by SergeantL

Really, then you owe me roughly $57,000. You see, I was told that I had to pay for my uniforms, and I had to pay for maintaining them. No, change that to $357,000. My wife's time for washing and pressing YOUR uniforms over 32-years is worth something.

But we already paid - you'll need to take your invoice to your government.

[SergeantL]

Originally Posted by b. frank

you'll need to take your invoice to your government.

Do you happen to have the address handy?

[b. frank]

Originally Posted by SergeantL

Do you happen to have the address handy?

Sorry - I just get my taxes taken out of my paychecks.
But if you find out anything - lemme know.
I've got a few invoices of my own.