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I spent 40+ years with that god (the one who required a gruesome sacrifice to satisfy his sense of justice, and now sends people to eternal torment for not believing that he was satisfied by that sacrifice). He was bipolar and he made me crazy. Crazy is not a fun place to be ... as a matter of fact, it's TORMENT. Therefore, an eternity with that god would be ETERNAL TORMENT.
To be clear, God did not require you or anyone else to make that sacrifice.
To be clear, God did not require you or anyone else to make that sacrifice.
That doesn't change the fact that the god I was taught to believe in required a gruesome sacrifice in order to satisfy his sense of justice. But read the fine print! His wrath is satisfied ... but it's not really satisfied. This god still intends to vent his horrible wrath on anyone who doesn't believe that his wrath was satisfied.
Also, this is the same god that I was told expected US to forgive, to turn the other cheek, to love our enemies and not to live by an "eye for an eye" principle, in order to be perfect just like him.
That doesn't change the fact that the god I was taught to believe in required a gruesome sacrifice in order to satisfy his sense of justice. But read the fine print! His wrath is satisfied ... but it's not really satisfied. This god still intends to vent his horrible wrath on anyone who doesn't believe that his wrath was satisfied.
Also, this is the same god that I was told expected US to forgive, to turn the other cheek, to love our enemies and not to live by an "eye for an eye" principle, in order to be perfect just like him.
Bipolar. Crazy-making.
But, He did it Himself. I could see your point if He asked one of us to do it.
But, He did it Himself. I could see your point if He asked one of us to do it.
My point is that the whole thing is crazy ... every facet of it. You've conveniently ignored that and focused on only one thing ... that God supposedly made the sacrifice that God himself required.
Never mind that the God-Father person having required a sacrifice is an "eye for an eye" principle of justice which isn't in line with what the God-Son person supposedly revealed about the nature of God. Never mind that the God-Son says that in order to be like the God-Father we must forgive, but that same God-Father couldn't forgive without a sacrifice being made.
Never mind the self-contradictory nature of the Christian belief that even though the God-Father person's anger against all people was supposedly fully appeased by the God-Son person's sacrifice, the majority of those people are still going to have to suffer the full force of that wrath for all eternity anyway simply for not believing it.
Does God forgive, or does God not forgive? Is his wrath appeased, or isn't it? Yes, no, maybe so.
My point is that the whole thing is crazy ... every facet of it. You've conveniently ignored that and focused on only one thing ... that God supposedly made the sacrifice that God himself required.
Never mind that the God-Father person having required a sacrifice is an "eye for an eye" principle of justice which isn't in line with what the God-Son person supposedly revealed about the nature of God. Never mind that the God-Son says that in order to be like the God-Father we must forgive, but that same God-Father couldn't forgive without a sacrifice being made.
Never mind the self-contradictory nature of the Christian belief that even though the God-Father person's anger against all people was supposedly fully appeased by the God-Son person's sacrifice, the majority of those people are still going to have to suffer the full force of that wrath for all eternity anyway simply for not believing it.
Does God forgive, or does God not forgive? Is his wrath appeased, or isn't it? Yes, no, maybe so.
Why do you avoid the obvious, glaring contradictions within orthodox Christian doctrines? And do you understand that rejecting those glaring contradictions does not constitute rejecting forgiveness?
Why do you avoid the obvious, glaring contradictions within orthodox Christian doctrines? And do you understand that rejecting those glaring contradictions does not constitute rejecting forgiveness?
I'm glad to hear you have accepted God's forgiveness.
I spent 40+ years with that god (the one who required a gruesome sacrifice to satisfy his sense of justice, and now sends people to eternal torment for not believing that he was satisfied by that sacrifice). He was bipolar and he made me crazy. Crazy is not a fun place to be ... as a matter of fact, it's TORMENT. Therefore, an eternity with that god would be ETERNAL TORMENT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
To be clear, God did not require you or anyone else to make that sacrifice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
That doesn't change the fact that the god I was taught to believe in required a gruesome sacrifice in order to satisfy his sense of justice. But read the fine print! His wrath is satisfied ... but it's not really satisfied. This god still intends to vent his horrible wrath on anyone who doesn't believe that his wrath was satisfied.
Also, this is the same god that I was told expected US to forgive, to turn the other cheek, to love our enemies and not to live by an "eye for an eye" principle, in order to be perfect just like him.
Bipolar. Crazy-making.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
But, He did it Himself. I could see your point if He asked one of us to do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
My point is that the whole thing is crazy ... every facet of it. You've conveniently ignored that and focused on only one thing ... that God supposedly made the sacrifice that God himself required.
Never mind that the God-Father person having required a sacrifice is an "eye for an eye" principle of justice which isn't in line with what the God-Son person supposedly revealed about the nature of God. Never mind that the God-Son says that in order to be like the God-Father we must forgive, but that same God-Father couldn't forgive without a sacrifice being made.
Never mind the self-contradictory nature of the Christian belief that even though the God-Father person's anger against all people was supposedly fully appeased by the God-Son person's sacrifice, the majority of those people are still going to have to suffer the full force of that wrath for all eternity anyway simply for not believing it.
Does God forgive, or does God not forgive? Is his wrath appeased, or isn't it? Yes, no, maybe so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
Why do you think so many reject this forgiveness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
Why do you avoid the obvious, glaring contradictions within orthodox Christian doctrines? And do you understand that rejecting those glaring contradictions does not constitute rejecting forgiveness?
You have done a wonderful job of exposing the irrationality in the beliefs of so many who apparently do not EVER question what they have been taught in the "precepts and doctrines of men," Pleroo. No sane person could question those things and love the irrational contradictory God you have exposed so clearly. God is Love and we are His children. Nothing that would be irrational for a loving Father to do to His children would EVER be something God would do to any of us, period.
What would god say to Hera, Diana or Prometheus? I suspect he would be suffering from an inferiority complex. Can god explain why there has been no cure for cancers? For there to be a heaven, there must also be a hell. That is why there is suffering here on earth. We are stuck in the middle here on earth. God is going to have serious problems when those who did not pass his judgment come back for redemption. There are souls who were cast into hell for eternity, they were never supposed to find their way back to god. What has happened to souls in this living world is unforgivable in any world.
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Why do you avoid the obvious, glaring contradictions within orthodox Christian doctrines? And do you understand that rejecting those glaring contradictions does not constitute rejecting forgiveness?
No sane person could question those things and love the irrational contradictory God you have exposed so clearly. God is Love and we are His children. Nothing that would be irrational for a loving Father to do to His children would EVER be something God would do to any of us, period.
