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If it is not humanly possible then it must be metaphor or allegory.
Jesus can change the fig tree because He is God, but for a believer then changes can be made within the realms of his own personal reality.
Well done. That is indeed the next stage of the argument. Jesus can do these mountain - moving miracles, also cursing a fig tree or curing a woman's problem because he contains the power of God. The disciples don't.
But then the next stage is to look at the quotes again (1). Do you see that Jesus is either saying that, if they have faith enough (a mustard -seed would be good enough but the disciples at Bethsaida (Matth 17.20 ..(foopnote 2) apparently didn't have that much altogether - go figure - did I ever say that the Gospels stacked up?) they can do the same sort of miracles or he is - be clear about this - misleading them. He as God can do this stuff but they cannot. What a swindle.
Of course, like the Evil god argument, I don't say that Jesus really did mislead them - I say that the Gospels are not true and were written by Greek Christians who never met Jesus and Jesus did no such thing.
To then take your first point, of course, if the claims are not true, they must be metaphor or allegory. That is of course that fallacy of either - or where there are other possibilities - the obvious one is that it is not true at all. That is really what you say when you appeal to metaphor or allegory - that it isn't true in practical terms but must be true of some faith -supporting rather diffuse truth which must be...somewhere. In fact as I said before, the results seem to show that miracle claims are dodgy and can in no way be ascribed to one religion or even religion at all. They look like random chance or 'luck' as we call it and some faith -based biased sampling or 'counting the hits or ignoring the misses'.
Sorry to go on, but it is needful to show that this Bible promise (not really a prediction but close) is false and can in no way be shown to deliver anything but delusion to those who wish to be deluded.
(1) Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done.
He replied, "If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and planted in the sea,' and it will obey you.
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him."
(2)whole passage (KJV)
16 ...And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him. 17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me. 18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour. 19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out? 20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
My pick would have to be.. not about prophecies, but how someone can have so-called immaculate birth without sex.
As a kid, I loved listening to stories and loved when my dad would read to me late at night.
The story of Adam and Eve, Eve coming from Adam's ribcage (something like that) was intriguing. How the serpent came out from the apple tree? I forget.. I thought, "This guy must've been smokin somethin. What an awesome trip he must've had".
What made me a total non-believer at age 5- was still my gut reaction to how Mother Mary was somehow impregnated by God as a Virgin. For real? Really?? Am I really hearing this? Can't be.
The idea of conception without intercourse astounded me!
YEP.. Prophecy...if you believe without doubt and have faith in Jesus and what he did do...and follow all, and fulfill all God and Christ said to do....making oneself Sinless...and restoring onto God what belongs to God...Something taken by Adam and Eve....stolen...needs to be restored ACTS 3:21 by a Sinless soul...to undo the curse of death....This gives credence to the laws of God and or commandments of God...to make one sinless enough to inact that right of passage back, to instill Justice (returning something stolen or taken wrongly or in disobediance)....because it is vital to the whole creation...thus do not touch it....leave it alone,...let it be...let it live...sow it..grow it...learn it...it is part of the natural Kingdom of God...the eco systems and all the living Jesus said to care for...."Let the living care for the living, and the dead burry the dead"....
Plants are living things....If one commands with truth and faith in he who has power over all things (God)...then when one say Go here or there...to anything...it will be moved...it will go...it will be done.
Moderator cut: Off topic
So how bent out of form is the world...If we pick Up the Bible and really look at what it says it ...and how world really is...by comparison....PROPHECY IS SHOWING SIGNS!
Isn't all I said In the Bible in some form?...Mathew 6:24...and the second commandment of God...
This is what the Eygptian/Roman/Jew continually share that is blatantly done in defiance of God.
Making money necessary...it is engraven, it is made to control or enslave...it makes poverty by taking away the Givens of God...to make you pay for them...denaturalized in some cases....
It has its own laws...and it has corrupted many!....destitution, oppression of the downtrodden or third world nations...it creates debt...again to keep the need of it alive....
It is just an idea....Giving and sharing cut that idea out .....Jesus when he fed the people the fish and bread...Did he charge them for the grub?...NO!
When Jesus healed the sick and suffering...Did he charge?...No.!
Jesus when he preformed miracles before the chosen...Did he charge?...No!
And when Jesus raised the dead (Lazareth) Did he charge?...No!
So we see Jesus being a free masion of sorts....no money required.
And kicking money of his fathers house, and saying things like You are making a den of robbers and theives...evildoers and sinners....and the like....with that COIN or MONEY....
Then it is wise to say God and Jesus and the house of them...does not use or want this in it.!!!
Jesus says it is easier for a camel to enter the kingdom of God, then a rich man....why? because a rich man uses money , and in using...creates evil and sin..directly or indirectly...and so sin is with him by way of breaking the second commandment of God....and so sin cannot enter.
That is why Jesus said, and did do the above mentioned...and said follow me.
So how does one respond to this?....there is only one way....to do it.
If we do not do...then we do not go!
Your choice...a free one?...surely not!
Now if one tries to move into that ideal of Give and share...care..and be one of the helpers of God...the system attacts all aspects to bring down the followers....
War on Drugs!....Marijuana movement in the 60's and 70's...brought voices of peace to a war torn world...and they made inroads to peace by way of mass protests...
And you know what...coming together in great numbers to enact Good in the world...is Good in God's eyes.
Yet the instutions set up in said idolic system...puts the pot smoking Pot growing people into prisons and or mental institutions...Why?...they need someone to blame for the sins and evils Money creates...so that the money is not questioned as being the root cause.
Hope this sheds a light on some truth...as we all saw the corruption inside the WTC and all connected to it....Governments now showing they too were corrupted and still are...brtainwahsed into the belief that wealth is more important than sound stable and secure states of eco.....Canada now pushing their natural resouces that pollute the planet.. make sickness and death.....why?...$$$$...more important than life....
Same with the USA>..using weapons and threats of war...to consume dictate over the weak.
Is it now the ones who make sin and evil festor more guitly..than the product?
"Your making a den of robbers and thieves"...Jesus said.
I still do not know how to respond. Very sorry. I think I have already said why, but will repeat. It seems a long and incoherent collection of assertions and claims based indeed on the Bible but of doubtful validity or even relevance (though I do detect a sort of appeal to a mass Jesus based reform movement -you may count me out). I have to decline to ..pardon me..waste my time.
OK, there are some of us who have said problems with Christianity & for different reasons of course. For me it is all the failed prophecies. The one that comes to mind more so then any of the others has to be. Is that Jesus has never returned the bible states that he will return in the time the generation of his prophets. It is totally clear that in Matthew 24:34 and Mark 13:30, Jesus believed the end of the world would come during the lifetimes of his apostles.
Mark 13:30 reads as follows.
Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
Whats your pick?
It isn't a failed promise. In a better translation has it thus:
Mar 13:30 Verily, I am saying to you that by no means may this generation be passing by until the time when all these things may be occurring." Mar 13:32 Now concerning that day or hour no one is aware - neither the messengers in heaven, nor the Son - except the Father."
Only the Father knew when those things would take place. Jesus didn't know. Hence He used the subjunctive "may."
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