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Old 11-03-2012, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Canada
1,410 posts, read 1,126,984 times
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The bible, what is the bible, can it be trusted (Religious Hard Talk) - YouTube


a comment under the video

COPY'S OF COPY'S OF COPY'S OF COPY'S Christians need to wake up and read.

BadKitty844 1 month ago

These 2 men are Christians not atheists

Last edited by Meester-Chung; 11-03-2012 at 09:50 AM..
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 12,355,090 times
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Which bible to trust or distrust?

The Standard Catholic Bible with 73 Books

The standard Protestant Bible with 66 Books

The Eastern Orthodox Bible with 75 books

The Ethiopian Othodox Bible with 81 Books

The Coptic Bible with 75-81 books depending on which Coptic church you attend.

The St Thomason Christians with Just one Book, the Gospel of Thomas

there is one Denomination that has over 100 books in their Bible, but I can't think of the name of it. I blieve it is one of the Orthodox Christian.
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Canada
1,410 posts, read 1,126,984 times
Reputation: 595
38000 denominations and counting
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 12,355,090 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meester-Chung View Post
38000 denominations and counting
I think that is just counting the ones in Arkansas.
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:38 PM
 
1,484 posts, read 914,613 times
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A very interesting conversation. I really loved their accent. (Copies of copies of copies of copies ) With all that said, way too much compromise of God's abilities. The interviewer did mention that it's possible for God to tell the scribes who wrote down the copies of the original text, about things that happened but wasn't written down in the original. That God can remind the people about what happened in the past. Yet this was brushed off and not really commented on.

Also, a good thing to keep in mind when bringing up the differences in the Gospels of the NT, is that it's possible one Gospel was working with more sources than another. So where one account said there was one angel present at Jesus' tomb, the other account that has a more accurate source tells there were actually two angels at Jesus' tomb.

With all that said, there is evidence to the things written in the Gospels and so on. So if all of that stuff was just copies/of copies/of copies, and that there are more variants than there are words in the NT (both men kind of sat back and a chuckled after that statement, and I did to ), than nothing in the NT should be backed up by any kind of hard evidence. Yet we have evidence of Pilate's existence. We have evidence of an event around 3 BC-1 BC that correlates with the star mentioned in Matthew's account. We have evidence that Jesus died around 30-33 years of age, on the same day of a lunar eclipse. (Jesus was said to have died in the reign of Pilate as governor, and there was a lunar eclipse in the year 33 AD. Jesus would have been in His thirties at this time) We have evidence of Caiaphas' existence, and the Herod's. All those things have come together, and the Gospels speaks of all those things. I'm sure if Jesus really did live and preach, many things happened. I'm sure if God wanted to, He could tell me some of the things Jesus did, and they would be just as true 2,000 years later.

So who cares if we have copies of copies, if God was over them all. Now when it came to the OT, copying those manuscripts wasn't taken lightly. That even if there was a small mistake in the copy, the whole thing was thrown away, and the scribe would start over. The scribes who wrote the OT, washed themselves before they even picked up the pen. I do not doubt for a second there were much errors in their copies, if any. I guess I see now that God preserved His word in two ways. One by perfect copying (the OT), and the other by addition (The NT).

The last thing I want to say about this great conversation, is that they view the Bible in the wrong context when it comes to the OT. The interviewer says the God of the OT was this "Warrior God" and so forth, yet he doesn't mention how God was in the beginning. Where was all the death and conquering when God created the world? By my understanding, God created the world without death, and death came as a result of Adam's disobedience. Where was Adam's slave in the beginning, if God wanted us to have slaves? Where did God say in the beginning, that Adam would have dominion over Eve? Eve's punishment was that even though she would desire to control Adam, Adam would rule over her. That was part of Eve's punishment for giving Adam fruit off the tree they weren't supposed to eat from, yet is that what God intended? From what I read in the beginning, God intended none of that. All that context is overlooked by "The Warrior God" of the OT. Jesus came to bring things back as they were in the beginning, and really He offers something much better than that. That is why God is not the "Warrior God" in the NT, because all of God's wrath has been exhausted on Jesus. Now God is saying come in, everyone who so wills. Because Jesus has taken the judgment of sin, and we can come close to God in Jesus.

So these men reasoned from their own lack of understanding about the Bible, about who Jesus really is. Their hearts were in the right place, but it was without understanding. The deeper you dig into the Bible, the better you will see it's accuracy. You have to rightly divide the word.
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Canada
1,410 posts, read 1,126,984 times
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Matthew is the only gospel that mentioned a star appearing at Jesus' Birth and it is the only gospel that mentioned the flight to Egypt and the killing of infants two yeas old and Under. Paul who allegedly wrote his epistles and letters never mentioned the events surrounding the birth birth of Jesus, his visit the the temple and talking to the priests and leaders and his miracles,


Story of Adam and eve and the rest of the Pentatuch are stolen from Mesopotamian and Egyptian myths the bible is not history it is the writings of superstitious bronze age farmers
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:19 PM
 
1,484 posts, read 914,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meester-Chung View Post
Matthew is the only gospel that mentioned a star appearing at Jesus' Birth and it is the only gospel that mentioned the flight to Egypt and the killing of infants two yeas old and Under. Paul who allegedly wrote his epistles and letters never mentioned the events surrounding the birth birth of Jesus, his visit the the temple and talking to the priests and leaders and his miracles,


Story of Adam and eve and the rest of the Pentatuch are stolen from Mesopotamian and Egyptian myths the bible is not history it is the writings of superstitious bronze age farmers

Like I said about one gospel having more accurate sources over the others, it can be expected for such a story to be in one of the accounts. Luke mentions another story concerning Jesus. Yet I have you know that Matthew's account talks more on Jesus when He is two years old, whereas Luke talks about Jesus' actual birth. I also agree with the conversation in the youtube video that the authors geared their accounts toward the cultures. Yet that doesn't mean the things written in it didn't happen. Only that the author made mention of the things that the culture could understand.

Now I disagree about what you stated on the Pentatuch. Yet I'm still studying on that because I found a lot of interesting things on it. Once I'm prepared to present what I've found, we can discuss that later.
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Old 11-03-2012, 07:20 PM
 
7,366 posts, read 6,480,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
Like I said about one gospel having more accurate sources over the others, it can be expected for such a story to be in one of the accounts. Luke mentions another story concerning Jesus. Yet I have you know that Matthew's account talks more on Jesus when He is two years old, whereas Luke talks about Jesus' actual birth. I also agree with the conversation in the youtube video that the authors geared their accounts toward the cultures. Yet that doesn't mean the things written in it didn't happen. Only that the author made mention of the things that the culture could understand.

Now I disagree about what you stated on the Pentatuch. Yet I'm still studying on that because I found a lot of interesting things on it. Once I'm prepared to present what I've found, we can discuss that later.
There are multiple contradictions, distortions, and lies in the Bible, which have been well documented here, on other forums, in many books, and on many websites. I don't think there's much question about whether the Bible can be trusted or not.
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Old 11-04-2012, 09:38 AM
 
1,168 posts, read 1,036,378 times
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The Old Testement is copied from an original source....So as it is said to be valid and correct...it is what Jesus studied and practiced...and fulfilled....to some extent....that is the Jist...What Jesus put forth with his teachings about doing or inacting the Commandments...not only on other Humans...but onto all living things...and to put away the IDOL of engraven Images they were asking for in the temples and by Rome...for God Gives everything ...Share, ...if you have two cloaks....Give one to one who does not have....Give...the key to God...is to Give...not sell...not buy...as all has been Given to all.....Now the idea of money takes those givens away from all...and makes one pay!...while supporting the opposing state, breaking a commandment...thus never fulfilling them...and as Jesus said ..it creates sin and evil..to get it....So the Prostitute..is a result of needing money...and Jesus helped her...because those ready to kill her all had money and were in some way in sin with her...as they all paid for her to be..or in using money caused her to be....not her fault....SO Jesus forgives!...but tells her to stop sinning....Given this forgiveness, Jesus then assults those who were ready to kill her...saying those of you without sin cast the first stone!....and no one could!....why?...yah...we know why if Money was with them...or they had paid for her services....or made her services be.....and in some cases taxed her to make her a sinner....Today the same old same old....new testement, old testement, and what is...is...are those books and lost texted considered correctly yet?....Remember the Commandments given to Moses, WHat Jesus Added, and first instructions Given to Adam..stand...what we should do is restore Eden and multiply them over the Earth....share, care, and be a helper of God....Not pollute war and make destitute..so more sins and evils arise...But that is what is...what is not, is where it is at.....maybe it is not so much the copies that are wrong...it is the people reading them....Blessed are the Poor..for they hold not that IDOL told not to have!

Last edited by Sir Les; 11-04-2012 at 09:51 AM..
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Old 07-13-2013, 05:43 PM
 
Location: San Jacinto
46 posts, read 50,759 times
Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meester-Chung View Post

The bible, what is the bible, can it be trusted (Religious Hard Talk) - YouTube


a comment under the video

COPY'S OF COPY'S OF COPY'S OF COPY'S Christians need to wake up and read.

BadKitty844 1 month ago

These 2 men are Christians not atheists
Yes the Bible can be trusted BUT only if you have an honest translation.
Google K7VHQ and click on San Jacinto for my photo and thoughts please.
This is serious business and if you don't get it right it will drive you nuts.
Blessings, Bob
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