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We've been discussing Jewish law and how it relates to non-Jews.
I'm not sure where you're going with this.
Actually, you said, "If the premise of the OP is correct (that Jesus is nothing but a man), then absolutely nothing has changed any way." I replied that yes, things have changed since Jesus came because hearing the words he (may have) said absolutely changed and changes people.
It doesn't take someone being God to influence (i.e. change) people.
Are you stating that even if Jesus was nothing but a man he still had the ability to make Jewish law apply to the entire world?
No. I wasn't addressing Jewish law at all with that statement. I was addressing exactly the quote of yours I showed. Yes, I do believe Jesus changed the world. I don't know about Jewish law specifically. I don't know much about it and can't make a statement about it.
No. I wasn't addressing Jewish law at all with that statement. I was addressing exactly the quote of yours I showed. Yes, I do believe Jesus changed the world. I don't know about Jewish law specifically. I don't know much about it and can't make a statement about it.
Our discussion thus far has has been about nothing but Jewish law.
It's not something I've thought that much about, but if Christians are wrong and Jesus was not God made flesh, and the Jews, Muslims.etc are correct, I wonder how God, assuming the God of the Bible/Torah/Quran still exists, will treat Christians? I'm not saying I worry too much about it, but for the first time I really thought about it today, imagine if Christianity was a Jewish/Roman cult? It's kind of scary to think, I don't want you to second guess your faith, but I guess it's what atheists have been saying all along.
I wonder if we'll be sent to the deepest depths of hell, or endure a painful destruction? Do you think he could be at all merciful?
There is not anything in the KJV of the Holy Bible that says that Jesus is God or a God or a god or God come to earth in the form of a man or anything else even remotely close enough to that idea to have made it a reasonable conclusion. Why the Catholics chose that idea to promote is a mystery to me. But so are many other of their beliefs (or the beliefs of most of the other organized Christian religions (OCR)). The verses below from Matthew seem to make totally separate Jesus and God, by Jesus' own words (there are dozens of these statements by Jesus and others by God
that state plainly that Jesus is the son of God). These passages also call into question the Catholics choice of calling a Priest, "Father".
Considering that Jesus the Christ died for the sins of anyone who believes he is the begotten son of the true and living God, then such a believer, who would be asking for his/her sins to be forgiven, would be forgiven.
How much responsibility a person has, I do not know. Will God say that it is not a person's fault, because the people he/she trusted (family, Church) to tell him/her the truth got it wrong? Or, will God say that we had our whole lives to read the holy book He gave us and to pray and strive for understanding, but we didn't bother?
If one builds a one-on-one relationship with God, then I think with that relationship there comes understanding and peace of heart and mind.
Even it it turned out that Jesus wasn't God, people who believed he was for the past 20 centuries have followed God and passed their belief down. If not for believing in Jesus, they would be following the gods their ancestors worshipped. Belief in Jesus as God incarnate and/or the Son of God brought people to God. Will God punish people for coming to him in whatever way they did?
It's not something I've thought that much about, but if Christians are wrong and Jesus was not God made flesh, and the Jews, Muslims.etc are correct, I wonder how God, assuming the God of the Bible/Torah/Quran still exists, will treat Christians? I'm not saying I worry too much about it, but for the first time I really thought about it today, imagine if Christianity was a Jewish/Roman cult? It's kind of scary to think, I don't want you to second guess your faith, but I guess it's what atheists have been saying all along.
I wonder if we'll be sent to the deepest depths of hell, or endure a painful destruction? Do you think he could be at all merciful?
I wish you wouldn't waste any energy or time scaring yourself this way my friend
Our God is a very loving and merciful God.
I believe hell is a place we send ourselves.
Just know that God truly desires a relationship with each of us - if we have that we have all we need, especially peace!
Even it it turned out that Jesus wasn't God, people who believed he was for the past 20 centuries have followed God and passed their belief down. If not for believing in Jesus, they would be following the gods their ancestors worshipped. Belief in Jesus as God incarnate and/or the Son of God brought people to God. Will God punish people for coming to him in whatever way they did?
I just have no answer for that. It doesn't seem as though God would punish the faithful believer regardless of what he/she believed; and this doesn't seem to be an unforgivable thing. Yet, with some 4,000 different Christian denominations teaching pretty much 4,000 different things, I have to wonder how much leeway we get. While I believe that the state of one's heart, soul, and conscience will be the ultimate decision-maker for assessing how we have done, I do wonder how much responsibility God puts on us to seek the truth.
A few years ago, my cousin and I were talking and she said that she was reading the Bible. She said that she decided she might die at anytime and she didn't want to stand at the Pearly Gates and have to tell God that, in all her years on earth, she hadn't had time to read His book. I had never thought of it like that. She is still an avid and dedicated church goer and she's been a good person and believer all her life. Yet there was just something about the way she said it and the way it sounded that felt profound. I had gotten lax in my daily devotional reading, but now I set aside time each day. There is so much information and so many answers, and such explicit directions.
Is "gee, I didn't know <whatever>, because I didn't bother to read the book" an acceptable excuse? I just don't know.
Even it it turned out that Jesus wasn't God, people who believed he was for the past 20 centuries have followed God and passed their belief down. If not for believing in Jesus, they would be following the gods their ancestors worshipped. Belief in Jesus as God incarnate and/or the Son of God brought people to God. Will God punish people for coming to him in whatever way they did?
AFAIK, according to Christianity, yes it does, because nobody will get to heaven except through Jesus. According to the Bible, Jesus even said so.
I've wondered the same thing, Trimac. If Jesus wasn't really the messiah as foretold in the OT, wouldn't God be furious with those who raised a man to the status of God?
He wasn't. He didn't fulfill any of the Messianic prophecies in the Jewish bible...not one of them.
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I was addressing exactly the quote of yours I showed. Yes, I do believe Jesus changed the world. I don't know about Jewish law specifically. I don't know much about it and can't make a statement about it.
