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The interesting thing is that if Jesus was not some kind of Son of God.. no God of use to anyone would not adapt the guy in a snap. Therefore if it's an issue it makes no sense, other then being on the wrong page of things, in general so to say.
What?
Anywho, in the Word, Jesus always stated very plainly not to worship him.
Comprehension is everyone's friend.
What?
Anywho, in the Word, Jesus always stated very plainly not to worship him.
Comprehension is everyone's friend.
You know what...I understand exactly what you are saying and agree. If U don't understand what I said then that is of no concern of mine. My entries are reactions to what I read, what I read is usually strange and I like to get strange suggestions out of my head. Thats because I like how my head works. So if you or someone don't like even that, and or can't even translate what it is guess what..? (Go back to the beginning of this post and start all over, or whatever .
I've wondered the same thing, Trimac. If Jesus wasn't really the messiah as foretold in the OT, wouldn't God be furious with those who raised a man to the status of God?
I'm in a quandary over this as well. I was raised a Catholic, fell away from their teachings when I was @ 40 because of all the lies and hype I uncovered. Was more like corporate America than some true religion.
Nevertheless all religions are 'man made'. Nowhere in the 'so called bible of any religion' does God or even Jesus recognize any man made religion. Even Jewish religion. God chosen people were the Jews but He never referenced his belief or attachment to their religion. In fact if you read what he said to the prophet Amos you'll see he did not care one iota for the hymns/prayers/etc/etc and says he'll turn his back on it all. He only wants justice and righteousness in his world. Pretty simple. Why weren't we all told this in catholic school/church???????????
My biggest concern is yours. If I am honoring 'just a man' a truly good man no doubt, but just a man, in front of God, how pissed is he going to get???????????
In the book of Hosea, God tells Hosea the following: I am the one. I am the only one. I am the only Savior. Now this really causes me some difficulty when I am told that if I do not accept Jesus as my only Savior, I'm going to hell in a hand basket. Who do I believe/follow/honor with the way I live my life? God or Christians?????
Jesus never said he was the savior, ever. Please show me the exact words, I am the savior. He just never says it though Christians have extrapolated that he did. It ain't there.
I have to pick God, but now I'm going to get Jesus pissed at me if he is the one savior and God was wrong when he said he was the only Savior?
The christian belief system tried to fix this dilemma by saying that Jesus and God were one in the same but that does not get said in the bible. Only by extrapolating what you want to hear from it can you kinda maybe tell someone that's what is being meant, not said, but meant????????????? Sounds fishy to me.
Lots of lies in the christian faith system. There is no word in the texts (the original texts translated verbatim into english) that says 'virgin'. The actual translation is 'young girl'. So Jesus had a mother just like we had. She was made pregnant just like my mother was and has a human biological father just like I have. There is nothing in the texts that say 'virgin' mother or 'virgin' Mary. I respect her for being the 'mother of Jesus' but don't have any idea where the 'virgin' came from except that the church did not want anyone to believe Jesus was 'normal'. Didn't want anyone having an image in their mind of Mary and ??? Joseph ??? doing the nasty. Don't know why we would not want him to be normal like us.
There were coke head popes that went into their own 'room' and got ripped, had visions, and came out saying it was God that told him this or that. WTF?!!
Many popes had mistresses and young boys. The church just doesn't want anyone to hear this side of the church.
What the Muslims are doing now, 'convert to Islam or die' is the same thing the Catholic/christian church did during the Crusades. Convert to Christianity or Die. So why are we not drawing the comparison between christian actions and muslim/islam actions today? They are the very same.
Just doesn't make a lot of sense so I'm hoping that God is my savior because he actually says it in the historical text, THE BOOK OF HOSEA, and if I honor him with my life then I'm good to go. If Jesus is God as well, then by honoring either one is good enough. If God is Jesus is God then you can't go wrong honoring either or both. You just have to ignore the bible thumpers that tell you you are going to hell in a hand basket if you don't specifically say Jesus is your savior. Ask them why they think God is wrong and refer them to the quote in the book of Hosea. See what they say.
The prophecy of Hosea centers around God's unending love towards a sinful Israel. In this text, God's agony is expressed over the betrayal of Israel.[5][6][7] Stephen Cook asserts that the prophetic efforts of this book can be summed up in this passage "I have been the Lord your God ever since the land of Egypt; you know no God but me, and besides me there is no savior" (Hosea 13:4) Hosea's job was to speak these words during a time when that had been essentially forgotten.[2]
It's not something I've thought that much about, but if Christians are wrong and Jesus was not God made flesh, and the Jews, Muslims.etc are correct, I wonder how God, assuming the God of the Bible/Torah/Quran still exists, will treat Christians? I'm not saying I worry too much about it, but for the first time I really thought about it today, imagine if Christianity was a Jewish/Roman cult? It's kind of scary to think, I don't want you to second guess your faith, but I guess it's what atheists have been saying all along.
I wonder if we'll be sent to the deepest depths of hell, or endure a painful destruction? Do you think he could be at all merciful?
If God would like to judge humans with a said standard. He must have this standard preserved across human history. He must make use of an efficient method for His truth to be conveyed.
So you need to first know what human witnessing is. Human witnessing is the most fundamental way for humans to convey a truth efficiently (without humans own awareness though). Only the Christian God has explicitly made use of such a way to convey the said truth.
In order to make sure that the same truth is conveyed from the beginning till the end. A earthly authority must be assigned as a guardian to 'protect' the document (Bible) from being edited once its crafting is put to a finish. Or otherwise, anyone can come out to claim that "my version of the document is the genuine one".
Again, this authority has only been assigned in Christianity. The Jews were assigned as the guardian of the OT. And when this earthly authority went corrupted and could no longer carry the role, the authority was shifted to the Catholics then the Protestants.
As a result, the Jews, the Catholic and the protestants are all keeping the same canonical OT, and with the Catholics and Protestants keeping the same NT.
This is to say, nothing better can be done for a claimed truth to be conveyed. And for a document of God being authenticated and kept to be consistent as history goes by!
Who said angry. You are taking quite the literary freedom aren't ya girl?
I can tell you this. I'm pretty certain if you spit in Gods face, he'd forgive you even though the punishment would be quite a ***** I'd assume.
My god is all loving, caring, forgiving, etc, etc, etc.
My post/reply was to try and figure out this christian idea that Jesus trumps God. I just don't see it.
They, not I, have created the idea that the two were one in the same.
I'm just trying to understand both sides while remaining neutral and keeping my own love for God, my own.
I believe in the seek and you shall find, ask and you shall receive process.
You sound so angry. But I am not saying you are angry. I'm just saying your response seems to desire to demean others. Not a 'good person' trait.
Did someone hurt you in years past and this shout out rebellious attitude is your way of dealing with it?
I for one hope nothing I have said was taken the wrong way and made you mad, for it was not my intention to say anything that you would have taken incorrectly.
If God would like to judge humans with a said standard. He must have this standard preserved across human history. He must make use of an efficient method for His truth to be conveyed.
So you need to first know what human witnessing is. Human witnessing is the most fundamental way for humans to convey a truth efficiently (without humans own awareness though). Only the Christian God has explicitly made use of such a way to convey the said truth.
In order to make sure that the same truth is conveyed from a beginning till the end. A earthly authority must be assigned as a guardian to 'protect' the document (Bible) from being edited once its crafting is put to a finish. Or otherwise, anyone can come out to claim that "my version of the document is the genuine one".
Again, this authority has only been assigned in Christianity. The Jews were assigned as the guardian of the OT. And when this earthly authority went corrupted and could no longer carry the role, the authority was shifted to the Catholics then the Protestants.
As a result, the Jews, the Catholic and the protestants are all keeping the same canonical OT, and with the Catholics and Protestants keeping the same NT.
This is to say, nothing better can be done for a claimed truth to be conveyed. And for a document of God being authenticated and kept to be consistent as history goes by!
******************
First of all, I don't think you need to be telling God what he must do. This is what you have done in your first sentence.
" He must have this standard preserved across human history. He must make use of an efficient method for His truth to be conveyed."
Not what a good person would want to live by, telling God what he should do.
Your second paragraph is incorrect. Christians are not the only man made religion to do this. They all do this. Look into them. And the 'Truth' as you refer to it is still in debate amongst the nearly 40,000 christian denominations throughout the world. Even they can't agree on their own religion. Why is that?
There is no need for any authority except Gods authority. He needs no help. Don't tell me you have been asleep at the wheel for the past millenniums and missed all the anger/fighting/killing over
"my version of the document is the genuine one". Surely you jest!?
We as humans are given the option to believe in God, in any form we desire. If we live a good life, we will be rewarded. It's as simple as that. You and I need not a man made religions moniker to be saved. If this were required there would be 11 commandments. And in that commandment, he would name the man made religion he wanted us to follow.
Finally there are no documents that can be claimed 'documents of God'. Man, humans wrote down everything and if you don't understand how weak of a link we humans are, serving our own needs before others, then you may be easily fooled. The OT is the only group of dated and qualified historical documents that have even a chance to withstand criticism.
Most of the NT were written between 40 and 80 AD and some believe it is 60 and 140 AD based on the lettering used. In addition translation becomes very difficult for Christians since only the most learned Jews that were expertly schooled in Sumerian/Aramaic/Hebrew language could translate correctly.
People don't under stand the original texts had no capital letters, no spaces between words, no vowels and some symbols represented words, and sometimes multiple words. So to translate the oldest documents takes the most learned minds that have studied these languages for centuries and passed their knowledge to the next group of translators.
The term Yahweh remains just a guess. The original word is yhwh. Who determined the 'a' or 'e' were the right letters? A Man did, the weak link in this whole discussion.
I'm not saying what I am posting is written in stone, it's just very easy to understand something once one gets all the 'real' information.
They got it wrong in that they quotemined OT script and used to build up screenplay to pad out the Jesus story. That story - padding is discrepant, unhistorical and retrospective. Whatever semantic jiggery you use, they prove nothing other than the unreliability of the gospels in telling us anything reliable about Jesus, what he said, did or was. Why is is this so difficult for you?
**************
When someone takes the time and goes back hundreds of years and looks at the very first interlinear bible they see much different things than what is being produced today.
There is no place in the OT that predicts Jesus by name to be coming as our Savior.
On the contrary God said with his own words to the Prophet Hosea that He, GOD, was the only savior.
So who ya gonna believe? GOD or the christian churches (nearly 40,000 different denominations that can't even agree on the entirety of the NT?)
And Arequipa, there is no word in the OT or NT that is translated into 'VIRGIN'.
It's been a lie since day one of the christian churches.
The actual verbatim translation of the oldest documents known to man is, you ready for this?, is;
YOUNG GIRL
You have to do more studying and clarifying your statements to get any creds here. The word Virgin is not in the original text. The christian churches have created this error on purpose. They did not want to have people thinking that Mary have sex with Joseph creating Jesus was a good idea. It may foster people having more sex. Remember, Mary and Joseph were not married. There is no place in the OT/NT that says they were.
In fact Eve was not Adams wife. She was made to be Adams "helper" if you actually read the real text as written/verbatim. A&E spent no telling how many days/months/years/decades/centuries/millennium in the Garden of Eden, and yes they had sex! Think about it, sex with a helper, without a marriage license, who would have though! And no children! The sex was for the pure pleasure of it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's because God meant sex to be a pleasure for mankind. We are made in Gods image, so I'm going to bet God has had sex. Maybe not what we have, but he made us in his image so it's gotta be true.
Sex is a gift from God. Marriage is not.
Even my evangelical sunday-school teacher believed in a sort of punishment for those denominations that weren't quite right but were still "Christian" in his view. I think he mentioned something about janitors vs kings as a career in heaven... whatever that even begins to mean.
Yeah, I recall this, too ... we regarded them patronizingly as "weaker brothers in Christ". We did not cast their destiny as punishment, just as a status downgrade, just like we treated them in this life. The arrogance of that is almost mind-boggling.
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I don't believe so?
