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Why should He need ME to tell Him that HE IS PERFECT?
that is truly the question.
God does not NEED us at all. He does not NEED me to love Him. He is self sufficient. but He WANTS us to worship, to love Him.
why?
because He is our creator, or parent. He loves us. what does He want for us? the same that any decent parents would want for their children.
He wants us to find happiness. purpose. He wants use to become enlightened individuals. He put us here, knowing full well that we would know pain and suffering, because He also knew that we would know joy, love, understanding, and truth.
how do we find that joy, that truth? by following Him, by learning from His example, by practicing the universal truths that He created. why do you think He gave us commandments? they are seen by some as hinderances, arbitrary laws that chain us down. they were given to us in a completely different light. God said, don't steal. sure, we can steal anyway--He gave us that choice. but if we do, we close doors for our future understanding and growth. God said don't steal because He doesn't steal, and He knows that this is one of the ways in which He is perfect. The more we follow God, the more perfect we become.
love and worship are all part of the same plan. as we learn to love Him, we will turn our lives more into accordance with His will, to His plan. we will find truth and happiness. we will come back to Him. that is what this is all about.
obviously we cannot do it all on our own. we are all imperfect, ignorant people, and that was why Christ was sent. He makes up the difference in our struggle, teaches us what we lack, lifts us where we fall, and loves us when we feel no one else will. but that is a topic for another thread...
God does not NEED us to worship and to love Him in any way except for the very real desire that He has, the desire a parent has for his or her children to love them and to grow. but we NEED to worship and love Him in order to find that enlightenment and joy that He sent us down here for.
LOL IF GOD IS REAL HE IS DOING A CRAPPY JOB AND HE IS FOR A FACT NOT PERFECT
by definition its impossible LOL for crying out loud, he told moses to go kill Idolatry in anger. or they could repent. (go look it up) hmmm repent or die hmmmmmmm THATS MODERN TERRORISM lol thats supports all killings of muslims by Catholics in Africa. 2nd if god is perfect he would have foreseen that and not have gotten angry. I will refuse believe in something that requires my believe to get in heaven.
God is also the main reason for death destruction, mass killings, wars, this is also a fact. religious wars there a never ending one in aferica and the middle east today. Dont cry to be about god loving us because truly if he truly loves us, all of this death corruption, destruction would never happen. He wouldn't let innocent people die. He wouldn't let little girls loose their dads because some catholics or muslim decides that God wants your family dead. I really cant stand it. I cant stand the thought of Catholics saying god loves us all. But he requires us to worship. in his way..... i cant stand it i am not going to based on my religion because of a santa like story.
There many things i can say about the belief in god. Such as it is the main reason for intolerance. Against Gays, Athes, other faiths, people who believe in other gods. Love by him is gone. he left this world along time ago
The main point of religion today is morals. not doing a good job but thats it what its ment to teach. virtue, now there is religions that isn't intolerant against others, who truly respect other believes who. dont ask you to worship them. thats Buddhism i dont believe in all of it like recarination. however they are purely moral. You go talk to one you will go see.
The reason it isn't popular is because they don't ask you to join they believe people must find there own way and choose he religion you truly believe in
Another thing against Christians. when two men decided to worship god their own way. by incents. guess what god did when they presented there offerings, he burned them alive (according to catholic religion) I can never worship or even respect a religion like this.
These are all true look them up
PLZ before you go spreading you Pro Catholic false proprogand anwser all the questions truthfully, and instead of turning a blind eye, consider other options instead of just one
plz forgive spelling errors and english errors
I am in Christian school even though i think its bull **** so i know what i am talking about. AND i studied world issues as well
first of all, it is the imperfection of humanity that has caused wars in God's name, not God Himself. it is our imperfection and ignorance that causes bad things to happen in the world with regards to moral atrocities. there are natural disasters that are another topic entirely...
God sent us down here to learn to use free agency, to make choices. some of those choices are bad. some are real bad. God does not cause terrorists to blow up kids, or cults to commit suicide. they choose that on their own.
that is part of the test, part of us being down here. we need to learn truth and perfection. we would not be able to do that in a sterile environment. we would not be able to do that if we did not have the opportunity to choose evil. only by learning the difference between good and evil, and then choosing the good do we actually rise above it.
God does not like suffering. He does not want us to be miserable. but He does want us to persevere. this life is so short in comparison to the eternities that He thinks that we can do it. If we have faith in Him and endure till the end of our lives, whether happy or sad, whether peacefully or violently ended, we will find happiness.
forever.
think about forever.
c. s. lewis wrote that (paraphrased) it is largely since christians have ceased to think of the next world that they have become so ineffective in this world.
even if you don't believe in eternity or God, the principle holds. in drivers ed they taught us to keep our eyes roving, and watch far down the road, otherwise we drift and run off the road.
suffering sucks. i cannot tell you how desperate and helpless i felt when i was in iraq, watching fellow marines die, watching children and innocent men and women suffer. i cannot imagine how much sadness God feels when we choose wrong, especially when it victimizes someone else.
but He will not force us to make correct decisions. that would break His own purpose for putting us down here. we woud never learn. thus, we would never return to Him as glorified beings through the atonement of Christ.
anyway, God does love us, and we can only find that precious truth by humbling ourselves and looking for it. that is the biggest test that we as sons and saughters of God will ever face. aaron out.
first of all, it is the imperfection of humanity that has caused wars in God's name, not God Himself. it is our imperfection and ignorance that causes bad things to happen in the world with regards to moral atrocities. there are natural disasters that are another topic entirely...
God sent us down here to learn to use free agency, to make choices. some of those choices are bad. some are real bad. God does not cause terrorists to blow up kids, or cults to commit suicide. they choose that on their own.
that is part of the test, part of us being down here. we need to learn truth and perfection. we would not be able to do that in a sterile environment. we would not be able to do that if we did not have the opportunity to choose evil. only by learning the difference between good and evil, and then choosing the good do we actually rise above it.
God does not like suffering. He does not want us to be miserable. but He does want us to persevere. this life is so short in comparison to the eternities that He thinks that we can do it. If we have faith in Him and endure till the end of our lives, whether happy or sad, whether peacefully or violently ended, we will find happiness.
forever.
think about forever.
c. s. lewis wrote that (paraphrased) it is largely since christians have ceased to think of the next world that they have become so ineffective in this world.
even if you don't believe in eternity or God, the principle holds. in drivers ed they taught us to keep our eyes roving, and watch far down the road, otherwise we drift and run off the road.
suffering sucks. i cannot tell you how desperate and helpless i felt when i was in iraq, watching fellow marines die, watching children and innocent men and women suffer. i cannot imagine how much sadness God feels when we choose wrong, especially when it victimizes someone else.
but He will not force us to make correct decisions. that would break His own purpose for putting us down here. we woud never learn. thus, we would never return to Him as glorified beings through the atonement of Christ.
anyway, God does love us, and we can only find that precious truth by humbling ourselves and looking for it. that is the biggest test that we as sons and saughters of God will ever face. aaron out.
Your a solider and i really respect that <tip hat> I willing be going into the rangers soon my self.
However i am not talking about the terriost in IRAQ. I am talking about the concept of relgious killings. The concept that god will always love us. and the concept he is perfect
I belive what i said about the slaughter of idoaltry people becuase they refused to renonced. That is infact Modern Terroism. I am talking about the fact that you have to worship god to get into heaven. Perfection is not achieveable in everyones eyes. Even if god is real. i dont beelieve in magic. and that he can slaughter because there refusal to swap there fates.
It is the Church who sent the death of many the corruption of the church is wipespread that last for years.
Maybe because God practices 'tough' love?
For example: Crack babies are a result of their mother's addiction to crack, and has nothing to do with God. If the junky mother doesn't give up her addiction her child will become a direct victim.
God, like nature (the law of the jungle), is merciless so you’ll die if you do not respect them. Don’t expect to survive Antarctica if you go there fully unprepared.
Tricky D: God is not merciless, but if you remember, He has to fulfill both mercy AND justice at the same time. that was part of the bargain. without justice, even with all of the mercy in the world, we would never transcend our current level of understanding and ability.
unfortunately, this means that people have to suffer. normal suffering is easy to accept and overcome. daily struggles with work, school, relationships, etc, are all understandable, and most people, regardless of religion, believe that learning to get over it will make them stronger. it is the harder stuff, violence, child abuse, sex crimes, war, racial hatred, etc, that cause people to wonder about the existence of God, and how He could be so blind and uncaring. why? because that is the only way that they can understand the situation (and when i say understand, i mean something that fits into their vision of reality, not that they are ignorant and cannot comprehend something). what is the logical answer? God cannot exist. or, God exists, but is a merciless being.
but there are other answers out there. obviously more than one. every religion (and athiesm counts as a religion) has a doctrine that explains for the most part why the things that happen in the world happen.
but bad things happen to both good AND bad people (besides which, the definition of a bad person is relative, and a completely different topic). some of the sickest, most afflicted people i have ever met in my life were also the most decent, most charitable, most humble and faithful. why? because God is the God of justice as well as the God of mercy. He has to allow us our freedom to choose. He promised that to us. if He went back on His word, He would cease to be perfect. that was why He could not even visit Jesus in the garden of gethsemane; the Savior had to do it Himself. i cannot imagine how much pain that causes God, to see His children suffer. but He knew that this would be the case when He created us. we all knew too. we all had the chance to accept or deny this life, this physical existence. we jumped on that chance because we knew that it would, despite the pain, anguish, and imperfection, give us experience, wisdom, happiness, and ultimately, the chance to accept and receive the redeeming love of our Savior, to return to God the Father.
we are the children of a Father in who is perfect (this is now incorporating in part ....think's assessment) and cares deeply about us. cares about us enough that He was willing to send us down here to earth to gain physical bodies, and thus, the opportunity to learn, to experience the difference between right and wrong. why? because right is what makes God perfect. He is in harmony with His creation, His universe. perfectly so. we are not. we were not. down here, we have the chance to learn that harmony. to learn that perfection, which means to learn the difference between right and wrong. wrong is what we do that leads us farther and farther from His perfection.
Christ was mandatory to this system, because we are all imperfect beings, all mortal, fallible, weak-willed. He was not. As the Son of God, He was the only being righteous enough (perfection was the requisite) to be able to cleanse our sins. He is the one who makes sadness go away, who cures the sick, who comforts the penitent, who lifts the broken and weary. He suffered all the negative aspects of mortality so that He would know how to succor us in our affliction. that includes war, disease, loneliness, abuse, shame, violence, prejudice, and any other possible way that we can suffer here on earth.
but it is still our choice to accept that sacrifice and that path. we can look at His way, and claim that the commandments restrict us. we can claim that it doesn't make logical sense. we can wait for God to show Himself to us before we will begin the path. we can make all kinds of excuses. but we have to choose that path in the end. He will never force us, even when He knows positively, 100% (cuz He does) that the path we are on currently will lead us farther away from Him. He promised us that we would decide the future of our souls.
as to God inciting the isrealites to violence against other nations, and ordering moses and other prophets to execute those that opposed Him, i am the first to admit that i do not know everything. those are topics that have routinely caused me sleepless nights.
religion became a topic of debate and interest for me in high school. i had always been rleigious before that, but in high school my tiny brain started to awake to questions and philosophies of life and eternity. i decided that i had better study what i proclaimed to be true. my parents were a large support in this by the way. my church teaches that there really is only one truth out there, like science. but in order to really understand it, you have to find out for yourself. you cannot go on the pastor's word your whole life. you cannot believe just because it is tradition, and your grandmother, and her grandmother, and so on were all members of a religious sect. religion is a way of life, a way of thinking, not a club. my parents taught me to go find out for myself. to go ask questions. i read the bible. i asled God if it was true. i have never received lightning bolts or burning bushes as revelation, just the peace of the Spirit that the book of Galations speaks of, and now i know that God exists, that Christ died for me, and that the bible contains truths of universal importance.
i cannot answer authortatively about why God has condoned seemingly unprovoked violence. but i have my conjectures. a few facts first. A) God has said that it is better that one man should perish than an entire nation dwindle in unbelief. B) we give courts the power to condemn a man to death, or various other disciplines. but God has authority even beyond that. C) God has often doen things in ways that confuse the wise and astound the learned, like picking a child to teach multitudes, or, in some cases, using a religious leader to effect the conquering of a neighboring people.
so:
A) if God knows that i am about to lead a whole nation astray, He might decide that it is better that i die, than to allow me to ruin so many lives and families.
B) He has that authority, however unfair it might seem, especially to us, who have not seen the crime i was about to commit (what was that tom cruise movie called, about precrime? kind of a paradox, no?) but God sees the big picture. He can judge not just our actions, but the thoughts and intentions of our hearts, even before we take a step in the wrong direction.
C) sometimes He uses His servants to carry out that final justice. He is already authorized, as we stated earlier. how He does it is up to Him, and in His own wisdom, does not necessarily make sense to us. it will though. we have been promised that we will see the entirety of creation, from the beginning to the end. we will learn the reasoning behind every quewstionable occurance. every decision God made. every sermon from His servants.
i could not imagine being moses when he came down from the mount, found the people rebelling, and was commanded by God to effect bloody punishment. i would be horrified. but if i had received the same knowledge that moses did, if i had walked and talked with God, and had the witness from the Spirit that this was God's will, i would have known it was what was needed.
again, this in only the philisophicsl musing of someone who has long had similar questions. we do not know everything now. the bible does not contain all of the history and all of the revelations of Christ's servants, or even of His own. but we have been promised that we will receive it all one day. so i wait. i continue to question. i continue to muse. and i continue to hope.
Tough love is not merciless; I'm merely saying that God will not interfere if you are not willing (or seem unable) to learn (from) the consequences of your actions. Nor does He play favourites.
In the words of Jesus: 'doesn’t God let it rain on both evil and good man?'
Loving the people who already love you is easy.
Loving those who do not love you is hard.
Besides, justice and fairness are 2 completely different things.
Last edited by Tricky D; 01-14-2008 at 01:10 AM..
Reason: grammar
Simply because justice (as in human law) is not always fair.
Here in Holland a burglar sued a house owner for a faulty roof, because he fell through it when he wanted to break in. I'd argue that it is the occupational hazard of being a burglar, apparently my government disagrees with me since the burglar won his case in court.
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Maybe because God practices 'tough' love? 
