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elamigo...I agree, but to each their own...who can say why people do what they do...I have no distain, or contempt for these forums, I find them very interesting...I have not yet picked a "denomination" I can call my own, and even though I may feel that this is not one I could ever be, it doesn't mean I'm not curious, and as interested as the next person.
Oh please. This whole idea that the "normal" Christian seeks to impose their beliefs on anyone is absurd. Do the Christian police come knocking on your door Sunday morning? Do you get harassing phone calls about your lack of belief? Do you feel your life is at risk from angry Christians who disapprove of your "lifestyle"? No, no and no.
It doesn't rise to that level for most people most of the time, nor did I say that it did. However in my experience Christians are easily threatened / offended by anything that questions ideas they are not personally supposed to question. As a result it's very common for them to caricature and/ or dehumanize unbelievers. The OP caricatures unbelief and refuses any evidence contrary to that caricature. In a different time or place, maybe the OP wouldn't limit themselves to caricatures. It seems to me that a lack of effort to find out what we really think, based on empirical evidence such as, oh, say, listening to our actual thoughts, suggests that a preconceived notion is being advanced at all costs. Such agendas are unsavory.
The question posed by this thread title is rather similar to questions like, "have you quit beating your wife?". Any direct answer is an admission of guilt and any protest that you have never beaten your wife brings accusations of evading the question. When people play these kinds of games, they are not interested in actual understanding. If such people are interested in actual discourse they would behave very differently. I don' t feel persecuted but I do not feel respected either.
It doesn't rise to that level for most people most of the time, nor did I say that it did. However in my experience Christians are easily threatened / offended by anything that questions ideas they are not personally supposed to question. As a result it's very common for them to caricature and/ or dehumanize unbelievers. The OP caricatures unbelief and refuses any evidence contrary to that caricature. In a different time or place, maybe the OP wouldn't limit themselves to caricatures. It seems to me that a lack of effort to find out what we really think, based on empirical evidence such as, oh, say, listening to our actual thoughts, suggests that a preconceived notion is being advanced at all costs. Such agendas are unsavory.
The question posed by this thread title is rather similar to questions like, "have you quit beating your wife?". Any direct answer is an admission of guilt and any protest that you have never beaten your wife brings accusations of evading the question. When people play these kinds of games, they are not interested in actual understanding. If such people are interested in actual discourse they would behave very differently. I don' t feel persecuted but I do not feel respected either.
You're absolutely correct about the OP. By the number of people participating in this thread indicates, too many have fallen for his trap. Posters such as him are best ignored.
Yeah, I guess tales of magic are definitely a competing thought. In this country, the tale of how a mangod pulled up the NZ landmass while fishing, would be placed on the table as a competing thought. Some people don't really see the need for grammar either. Is that another competing thought?
See, there ya go, with the whole, "we athiests so wise, you god believers so dumb" schtick. Ho hum. Booorrrinnggg.
Lookie here "mate" or is it "lad", I forget what you zipper heads use. I studied plenty about the Greek gods in my mythology classes. It was never presented as anything other than what it was, but I could have adopted their system as mine. Does it offend your genius that I was "forced" to learn such stuff? Well, too bad, I and many others found the subject interesting and worthwhile.
If you're so insecure that a class or two about the bible/religion will have everyone babbling about jesus nonstop maybe you need to acquire a deeper belief in your own nonfaith. Sure sounds like it to me, hoss.
It doesn't rise to that level for most people most of the time, nor did I say that it did. However in my experience Christians are easily threatened / offended by anything that questions ideas they are not personally supposed to question. As a result it's very common for them to caricature and/ or dehumanize unbelievers. The OP caricatures unbelief and refuses any evidence contrary to that caricature. In a different time or place, maybe the OP wouldn't limit themselves to caricatures. It seems to me that a lack of effort to find out what we really think, based on empirical evidence such as, oh, say, listening to our actual thoughts, suggests that a preconceived notion is being advanced at all costs. Such agendas are unsavory.
The question posed by this thread title is rather similar to questions like, "have you quit beating your wife?". Any direct answer is an admission of guilt and any protest that you have never beaten your wife brings accusations of evading the question. When people play these kinds of games, they are not interested in actual understanding. If such people are interested in actual discourse they would behave very differently. I don' t feel persecuted but I do not feel respected either.
Absolute nonsense. Every "believer" I know has questioned his/her faith many, many times, without the input of others. Except for those people whose life goes along absolutely perfect in every way, of course. Not too many of those, though.
I took part in a class recently that its sole purpose was to examine reasons for and behind belief. Oh yea, it was sponsored by a local church. Horrors, how dare they ask such questions, huh?? On "sacred ground no less!
Good lord, have you really not been inside a modern church in that long? Many sermons are about peoples struggles with their belief. Frankly, anyone who has never questioned their faith is either a pretty dumb person, or a blind follower. Every organization of any size has some of both.
Its not that we mind questions. Its that we mind when they are "asked" with condescension, malice, haughtiness, spite, contempt, blatant disrespect, of some combination of the above. A respectful and thoughtful tone, seeking discourse, not domination or "victory" would generate much better communication, Im sure.
See, there ya go, with the whole, "we athiests so wise, you god believers so dumb" schtick. Ho hum. Booorrrinnggg.
Lookie here "mate" or is it "lad", I forget what you zipper heads use. I studied plenty about the Greek gods in my mythology classes. It was never presented as anything other than what it was, but I could have adopted their system as mine. Does it offend your genius that I was "forced" to learn such stuff? Well, too bad, I and many others found the subject interesting and worthwhile.
If you're so insecure that a class or two about the bible/religion will have everyone babbling about jesus nonstop maybe you need to acquire a deeper belief in your own nonfaith. Sure sounds like it to me, hoss.
I don't know what a zipper head is, but you do seem to like insults. Try taking a deep breath.
I learnt about Greek mythology as well, so I'm not sure what your point is. Learning about religion wasn't. an issue either.
My only point is that children shouldn't be left to decide what is accepted science.
See, there ya go, with the whole, "we athiests so wise, you god believers so dumb" schtick. Ho hum. Booorrrinnggg.
Lookie here "mate" or is it "lad", I forget what you zipper heads use. I studied plenty about the Greek gods in my mythology classes. It was never presented as anything other than what it was, but I could have adopted their system as mine. Does it offend your genius that I was "forced" to learn such stuff? Well, too bad, I and many others found the subject interesting and worthwhile.
If you're so insecure that a class or two about the bible/religion will have everyone babbling about jesus nonstop maybe you need to acquire a deeper belief in your own nonfaith. Sure sounds like it to me, hoss.
I don't know what a zipper head is, but you do seem to like insults. Just relax.
I learnt about Greek mythology and various religions, at school also. No big deal.
My only point is that children shouldn't be left to decide what is accepted science.
The Agnostic is of intrest; here is a person who sees enough evidence to think there might be a God, but equally sees enough evidence that there maynot be one. Its what the bible calls " Lukewarm", or walking the middle of a road, not really walking on either side. There is intrest in God, just no convincing committment; kind of like the common man single women keep meeting; they seem interested, but afraid of committment, usually because they want the " Benefits of relationship", without the committment required. Some Agnostics want the benefits of belief, without really having the committment of belief. Some of them desire personal pacification from God, they want the personal intervention from him, which I certainly can partly understand.
Yet they have " Split intrest", like a split personality, clouds without water, they lack convincing. They are interested in God, but not interested. Nuetral. Trying to exist in two worlds.
No Mickiel, Agnosticism is what the idol fails to understand. Because it has words, but has no brain.
Pyrrho and other teachers of Agnostic (acataleptic) understanding, have since its first historical conception in our Western Civilization in 300BC understood something.
They weren't some equal weight empiricists, but were in fact strictly against the empiricism employed by Stoics to find their "undoubt."
So "The Agnostic" isn't as clear cut a label of pure apathetic equal-ism as you seem to try to put it. Some academic Agnostics don't see enough evidence that there might be a God, nor the other way around, in fact, they reject the idea of evidence leading to catalepsia (Gnosis) at all.
So for you to go around saying that that bible is talking about Agnostics when it talks about the Religiously lukewarm, or when it talks about those who abstain from extremes as people who like getting hit by horse-drawn carriages, you are blinding yourself to your own interpretation bias.
For you see, what Agnostics have is no interest in a false god like YHWH, and much interest in helping YHWH seek enlightenment for itself and end its self-delusion and vain desires.
Interest is what Christians express for Jesus' teachings, just no convincing commitment. What theists like yourself are afraid of is commitment to Allah.
This "commitment of belief" is a ridiculous dogmatic concept designed by the Worst Enemy to lead people away from a spiritual path, understanding, compassionate, productive path.
Some agnostics can desire personal pacification from their chosen God (Allah, Mazda, Buddha, or Jesus), such would be called [a faction of] agnostic monotheists.
I and many others don't lust for such gullible personal pacification that the Worst Enemy pretends to provide for those needy anti-agnostics it wishes to consume as fish and wheat. We are blessed in everyday of our lives, because of such a (perhaps provided) Understanding as we have been granted. No further personal intervention is needed, and no thanks is sought from that which gives freely and willingly.
Clouds without water don't exist, stop trying to be poetic. The only thing that is smoke and mirrors here is your false believes and proud insults.
Pull the plank out of your own eye! seek Allah! But you wont, because you have no commitment and want to live "in both worlds" by denying to become a slave (Muslim) of your Creator.
Your questions do not upset me, they are common rants from many who post here, I have heard them many times before; I am simply responding to you. One common trait in debate about God, is to simply put him down and criticise him, which is a form of acknowledgement of him; yet those Atheist and Agnostics who put God down, don't seem to think that is a form of acknowledgement of his existence; which I personally disagree with.
You do not put things down that don't intrest you, or don't have a hold on your consciousness.
Sort of like critics of Harry Potter acknowledge his existence yet are falling straight into Lord Voldemort's trap.
Or how those Christians put down and vandalize atheist signs, must be because they are interested in atheism.
No purehuman, you do not KNOW God was made up by humans. It is impossible for you to KNOW, frankly, same as its impossible for me to KNOW he wasnt made up. The only way you could KNOW is if you could PROVE, without doubt, that there is no God. And WE all know you cant do this, or you would have already done so.
Now, you can STRONGLY BELIEVE that God was created by humans. Or have a "gut feel" about it. Or "know" it, in your heart. You can be even be "pretty darn sure" of it. But you cant KNOW. Its why I capitalized the word "Know". To make sure others understood my use of the word.
So, even though you think you KNOW, you dont really KNOW. See?
I never said all atheists were super brainy types. I just said they boasted about their intelligence alot. BIG difference.
It would appear subtleties are not your strong suit. Something for you to work on.
I think he means "know" in the colloquial sense, like "I know werewolves don't exist".
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