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The thought came to me as I was reading through the threads. It seems there is a general consensus that a person with no knowledge of God(swt) can not be held accountable for disobeying what he does not know.
Just my opinion but I do not think God(swt) will hold a person responsible for not believing in him, unless the person has made a self chosen decision to avoid learning of the existence of God(swt) It seems this eliminates many atheists from punishment for what we theists see as sin.
I do not see this as getting a free ride, but I do see it as reason to think some atheists may unkowingly be closer to God(swt) than some of us theists try to be.
What is your view?
We hold people accountable for disobeying what they don't know but should, all the time. The law makers would be able to unfairly hold anyone accountable for any minor disturbances that they want to punish or seek revenge for. In my opinion, Marcus Aurelius was right when he said:
Quote:
"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."
The god of Israel cared only about his laws (a useful political tool), and none of his laws denied atheism, they merely denied other gods (competing politics).
Sure it is. Hating or not believing something to be possible doesn't make it so.
Right back at you. Hating or BELIEVING in something to be possible doesn't make it so. I have never sinned. Sin is a transgression against a religious law. I do not subscribe to this religion, therefore I do not sin. There is absolutely no evidence of ANY consequences to me for not obeying YOUR LAWS.
My view: God has made Himself known to all humans, through creation, and therefore without excuse.
That may be your view, but there are certainly some posters here that disagree. It is abundantly obvious that God has NOT made Himself know to these:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tazzled
..... I do not believe in god, I do not believe in sin, I do not believe in the devil, I do not believe in heaven, I do not believe in hell. Sin is a Christian construct that applies only to those that subscribe to the Christian belief. .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmicstargoat
..... I have never sinned. Sin is a transgression against a religious law. I do not subscribe to this religion, therefore I do not sin. There is absolutely no evidence of ANY consequences to me for not obeying YOUR LAWS. .....
so, no. God has not made Himself known to all humans.
Back on topic: Sin is a religious concept. It probably does not apply to all religions. Therefore, someone completely devoid of belief in gods is incapable of sinning. However, those of the fundamental persuasion will come back with the argument that the atheists had their chance and God will condemn them to eternal damnation for (somehow) not believing correctly. I have a big problem with that. You can't just decide to believe something. Although beliefs change over time, at any given point in time, either you believe or you don't.
IMO, God will not judge anyone by some silly label they are addicted to. (whether a religious or non religious label) He sees into a person's heart and soul., without any help from religious people about who is sinning and who isn't
I am more inclined to think all the religious "judgers"( that is a sin ya know) are the ones who are/will be in trouble for putting themselves on pedestals.
This atheist believes that even we know the difference between what is moral as opposed to immoral; between what is right or wrong. --Sin is a religious concept that does not apply to mankind in general.
How many religious beliefs does it take to get to the end of a Tootsie Pop?
I understand that in order to have a life some people have to have a ruler, an after thought and guidelines to follow but not everyone does and that's ok. There is no basis for the thought of an atheist sinning.
I don't think you have the right to hold me accountable for something you who believe can't even come to like terms on. Once you who believe in this God come together and unite on a set of rules that apply to all of you then you can question an atheist on sin. Until then you should address the fact that even if an atheist could sin which sin from which religion could we be committing? A Christians definition? A Muslims definition?
Do all religious beliefs include sin? The same list to follow? The same after life to worry about losing out on if I do sin?
If you could all get, Jews, Muslims, Christians of all faiths which vary greatly except for the son of God issue and Scientologists maybe a few fanatics as well thrown in together and come up with a general outline that would apply to all then we could start there. After that then you could come on over to the atheist and discuss the non believer's sin. But until then it's a bit confusing for me as an atheist to guess which sin I would be committing.
So, you believers get together first and work out your differences and then get back to me. A Jew is sinning to a Christian for just being a Jew, etc, etc. I think my sins would just depend on what YOU believe, not what I don't believe.
As I see it right now you are all sinning against one another and who knows where you'll all go in the end, you can't agree on that either. Should be interesting to watch.
This question is kind of strange. "Sin" is a religious concept. For an atheist, it is possible to do something wrong, or illegal (not always the same thing), but not to "sin" since "sin" is an act of disobedience to God whose existence atheists deny. For the religious however, ALL atheists sin in denying the existence of God. It is a matter of perspective, purely subjective.
Since sin is going against a gods rules, and there is no god, no, you can't.
But if you mean break religious rules regardless of the existence of a deity, then I don't go a secondthrough my lifewithout sinning. Every time I eat without praying, everytime I blaspheme the god of fire by lighting my gas stoe without prayer, when I open the fridge door on a Saturday and the light turns on, every second I breathe while wearing an IUD, when I wear trousers, when I leave the house with my face uncovered.
Since sin is going against a gods rules, and there is no god, no, you can't.
But if you mean break religious rules regardless of the existence of a deity, then I don't go a secondthrough my lifewithout sinning. Every time I eat without praying, everytime I blaspheme the god of fire by lighting my gas stoe without prayer, when I open the fridge door on a Saturday and the light turns on, every second I breathe while wearing an IUD, when I wear trousers, when I leave the house with my face uncovered.
Lol, exactly! Gosh, so many sins we could be committing depending on who's accusing. From my end I can't sin but from(religious crowd) your end, wow, I could be sinning every minute of the day depending on who you are and what you believe. Crap, I'm having coffee right now so if you're Mormon then to you I'm sinning.
I do not believe many atheists make a conscious choice to become an atheist.
I'm with you on this one. Your practices and actions are under your control, but your beliefs really aren't.
Just as a thought experiment, imagine that there's such a thing as an infallible polygraph. And imagine that someone offers you $10 million, and all you have to do is to believe -- really believe -- that 2 + 2 = 5, as shown by the infallible polygraph. Could you do it? I'm sure I couldn't and I don't know many people who could.
I feel much the same way about God. There are plenty of personal reasons why sticking to the belief structure I was raised in would be beneficial to me, and really no "downsides" -- I've heard the saw that people who fall away from religious belief do so because they want to live profligate lives, but that doesn't fit my story. I just happen to think the evidence is too convincing that the tenets of that religion aren't true, and after years of trying I eventually realized I couldn't "make" myself believe.
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Crap, I'm having coffee right now so if you're Mormon then to you I'm sinning.
