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Well, if you suggest that it is "obvious" through creation that god exists (and I assume you mean your particular god), then you should be able to point out the obvious. For instance, I am looking at a rock right outside my window. In what way does that make it "obvious" that a god exists, much less the god of Abraham?
Well, if you suggest that it is "obvious" through creation that god exists (and I assume you mean your particular god), then you should be able to point out the obvious. For instance, I am looking at a rock right outside my window. In what way does that make it "obvious" that a god exists, much less the god of Abraham?
I don't know why you bother to point to an answer that is no answer at all and is totally circular.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
"As far as my original post, I believe God has made Himself known to all men because the Bible says so (and I believe the Bible is truly the word of God). I also believe it because it has happened to me & most people throughout history. I believe atheists are denying the obvious."
Again, your god is not obvious to me at all, and your claims are just claims.
I don't know why you bother to point to an answer that is no answer at all and is totally
It's difficult to answer that question without getting into why I believe in God, which is not the subject here. Nevertheless, those are reasons I believe God has made Himself known to all mankind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmicstargoat
Again, your god is not obvious to me at all, and your claims are just claims.
While sin is essentially a religious concept. I believe that it can entail more such as:
Sins against God(swt)
Sins against self
Sins against family
Sins against friends
Sins against community
Sins against Nation
Sins against Humanity
etc
While the term sin may encompass much more, sin, in itself only applies to the religious, as I stated before.
However, as a non-religious person I can commit a wrong against myself, family, friends, community, etc. I just would not consider them "sins" because that is specific to religion and a relationship with a god.
Indeed "sin" appears to me just to be the name on a package.
As a species we have a discourse about how best to live together and we reach individual and group conclusions on what is best there. What goes against those conclusions we call "wrong" "immoral" or "evil". What goes with them we call "right" "moral" or "good".
"sin" for me in that context is just another word for "immoral" or "evil". They are saying essentially the same as we are by using that word with one slight difference: That they are indicating that their "group conclusions" on this discourse have a religious root or connection.
"Sin" to me in other words is just another word for calling an action "wrong" or "immoral" while attempting to bolster that opinion by acting like the opinion has the backing of whatever particular deity the speaker subscribes to. A form of mental masturbation where the speaker is trying to rubber stamp their own opinions with a fantasy authority they feel they themselves otherwise lack.
The thought came to me as I was reading through the threads. It seems there is a general consensus that a person with no knowledge of God(swt) can not be held accountable for disobeying what he does not know.
Just my opinion but I do not think God(swt) will hold a person responsible for not believing in him, unless the person has made a self chosen decision to avoid learning of the existence of God(swt) It seems this eliminates many atheists from punishment for what we theists see as sin.
I do not see this as getting a free ride, but I do see it as reason to think some atheists may unkowingly be closer to God(swt) than some of us theists try to be.
What is your view?
You are saying that ignorance is bliss. The only case of an excuse for ignorance is the innocence of youth. The most unforgivable of sins is to denounce God openly. Reading through these threads, I'd say there are plenty of unforgiven to be judged.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo
Indeed "sin" appears to me just to be the name on a package.
As a species we have a discourse about how best to live together and we reach individual and group conclusions on what is best there. What goes against those conclusions we call "wrong" "immoral" or "evil". What goes with them we call "right" "moral" or "good".
"sin" for me in that context is just another word for "immoral" or "evil". They are saying essentially the same as we are by using that word with one slight difference: That they are indicating that their "group conclusions" on this discourse have a religious root or connection.
"Sin" to me in other words is just another word for calling an action "wrong" or "immoral" while attempting to bolster that opinion by acting like the opinion has the backing of whatever particular deity the speaker subscribes to. A form of mental masturbation where the speaker is trying to rubber stamp their own opinions with a fantasy authority they feel they themselves otherwise lack.
By this reasoning the Mayans, Aztecs, and any number of blood lust civilizations were not wrong to murder en masse. Civilizations can spiral into mass sin, and just because "everyone's doing it" doesn't make it any less wrong.
By your reasoning; If two people (a quorum) decide to kill someone, it's not a sin if they decide it isn't a sin. This is a convenient ignorance.
I do not see this as getting a free ride, but I do see it as reason to think some atheists may unkowingly be closer to God(swt) than some of us theists try to be.
What is your view?
An atheist cannot sin because sin does not exist, IMO
An atheist cannot sin because sin does not exist, IMO
The definition of Sin covers a rather wide spectrum and is not limited to theology.
sin 1 (sn)
n.
1. A transgression of a religious or moral law, especially when deliberate.
2. Theology
a. Deliberate disobedience to the known will of God.
b. A condition of estrangement from God resulting from such disobedience. 3. Something regarded as being shameful, deplorable, or utterly wrong.
intr.v. sinned, sin·ning, sins
1. To violate a religious or moral law. 2. To commit an offense or violation.
[Middle English sinne, from Old English synn; see es- in Indo-European roots.]
sin1
n
1. (Christian Religious Writings / Theology) Theol
a. transgression of God's known will or any principle or law regarded as embodying this
b. the condition of estrangement from God arising from such transgression See also actual sin, mortal sin, original sin, venial sin
2. any serious offence, as against a religious or moral principle
3. any offence against a principle or standard
live in sin Informal (of an unmarried couple) to live together
vb (intr) sins, sinning, sinned
1. (Christian Religious Writings / Theology) Theol to commit a sin 2. (usually foll by against) to commit an offence (against a person, principle, etc.)
[Old English synn; related to Old Norse synth, Old High German suntea sin, Latin sons guilty]
SOURCE
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