Quick Question about Christianity... (myth, church, prophecy, spirits)

[kaykay]

Originally Posted by satanoid

So then, if a child is molested, or a woman is raped: it is possible they will meet their attacker in paradise? Seems like a terrible way to spend eternity.

I'm an atheist, but I still think their are some stains that won't wash out...people who are truly beyond recovery or redemption.

By chrisitan ideological rules, Osama Bin Laden could end up in heaven, and victims of the 9/11 attacks could have been sent to hell.

That just seems terribly backwards and wrong to me, and is part of the reason I reject christianity on doctrinal reasons.

Theoretically, this is true. However, I think God is the one that even grants "repentance." And maybe I'm wrong here (my fellow believers can correct me if so.l) but doesn't the Bible speak of a "reprobate mind" when someone has spurned God and righteousness so long that God no longer strives with them. Scamp alluded to this in one of his above posts also.

Also, just playing out the theoretical scenario, if someone did meet their attacker in heaven, I think they would both be so transformed by the love of Christ, that it wouldn't be an issue.

And back to the OP, I think also that's why it's dangerous to think you can deliberately live as you please without God all your life and then repent at the last minute. Some may be able to, but some not because again, I think it is God who grants repentance. I think it's presumptuous to think we would necessarily be given that opportunity. Does that make any sense?

[cg81]

Originally Posted by kaykay

And back to the OP, I think also that's why it's dangerous to think you can deliberately live as you please without God all your life and then repent at the last minute. Some may be able to, but some not because again, I think it is God who grants repentance. I think it's presumptuous to think we would necessarily be given that opportunity. Does that make any sense?

Yes... God does the calling. If He is calling us, at various times throughout our life, and we ignore and disregard those calls, wanting to live our own way, we probably will ignore the last call that comes before we die.. and if we do know we are going to die, we would need to answer His call, feeling remorse for our sin and regret for all the calls we had missed... As was mentioned, this would have to be a true repentance, not just a last-minute "trying to avoid punishment" type of thing.. It could be that God would grant grace, if we knew we were going to die, but it is a very risky chance to take.. Make use of the chance now!

[sun]

Originally Posted by Joshhhhh

So as long as I repent before I die, I can do whatever I want in life, and still go to heaven?

I happen to believe that people can only only sin as much as the Holy Spirit allows them to, and until their penalties become so severe that their sins will actually be stopped by God and possibly even by death.
So whether a person believes that they will be going to heaven or not, there's always going to be a punishment for sins. That punishment most likely will need to be paid before one goes to heaven.
But it's going to be paid unless God grants a reprieve.
So under this scenario, going to heaven is secondary to paying for one's sins.
The true nature of heaven and what it's like when we enter it really isn't known.
There are still mysteries to God.

[sun queen]

Originally Posted by Joshhhhh

So as long as I repent before I die, I can do whatever I want in life, and still go to heaven?

What do u think repent means? Asking God for to forgive your sins is a good thing, but if u r just going to keep purposely sinning what is the point? God knows your heart. HE knows u and HE loves u anyway. If your are sincere with God HE will forgive u, but if u want to keep living any kind of way u r not really repenting. It is dangerous to think u can live a life of sin and at the end just ask God to forgive u and everything will be alright. What if u don't ask God before u die? U don't know what state u may be in at the end. The Bible says "what ever a man sows that shall he also reap."

[Timothylogan3]

I think what would make things a little bit clearer here is to have an indepth understanding of will power, repentence, sin and the plan of salvation, based on the entire counsel of Gods Word. Now from what I understand repentence is not a lip service, it must come from way deep within the heart. At the same time repentence is not remorse, its far deeper than that. That brings me to the key factor in repentence - the will. It is not as easy as we think. I wanted to share this in the predestination thread but couldnt get to it. Freewill is not a power that is entirely influenced by our minds. There are outside factors that influence our decision making, and sin is a major one. The more sin we let in, the more ground we loose to it. hence the more one gives oneself more and more to sin the more sinfullness influences their decision making. This is where the bible talks about the hardening of the heart, and the harder it gets the more difficult it is to repent!. you can not just change who you have allowed your self to be. Yes repentence is possible, but its not that easy, the odds are simple against you. - to continue in another post.

[Timothylogan3]

So that was my humble view on free will part. Next repetence, but before I go there maybe I should first share my humbe views on sin. What is sin? Is it merely just to do that which is wrong Gods sight? It is more than that, i believe. At its heart of hearts sin is to believe ourselves to be over and above God. It is to sit in his place and say not Your will be done but mine be. Sin is to see yourself as being equal or above God, refusing the role of a created being, assuming the role of a Creator. Now heres the thing, when I allow myself to be consumed by sin, and give myself completely to it I am allowing myself to be consumed by a lust that is an abomination in His sight, declaring myself a rebel, his enemy. I allow myself to be decieved by a lie, that I am anything more than what I am - a created being. This is why the bible says satan is the father of all liars, and only lies come out his mouth, and that he lied from the begining. I am allowing my true identity, purpose and destiny to be distorted and eventually destroyed and lost. we are not god and we can not and should not play that role, not in the slightest of manner, it kills us, and at some point you loose yourself so much that you are forever lost, and repentence, is not only impossible, but way out of reach! btw - satan can still repent, but he cant, he is way to lost. okay i dont think i am gona get down to rest of my points, but what think, imho, would help is for us remember we are not god, judging, those who are not of his house, and condemning is his role, and at the same time we must never think this and that is impossible to him, and that includes healing from self inflicted wounds, sin, and outside inficted wounds.

[Joshhhhh]

There should be a religon where you can do whatever you want, and as long as you didnt touch kids or kill people, you could go to "heaven", it would make more sense.

[Scamp]

Originally Posted by Joshhhhh

Lame. There should be a religon where you can do whatever you want, and as long as you didnt touch kids or kill people, you could go to "heaven", it would make more sense.

Then you misunderstand what God is. If there was such a religion as you describe and you were allowed entrance into heaven, no sooner would you come into the presence of God than you would perish. There will be no sin in heaven, neither in action nor blemish. We were created to serve the Almighty, not ourselves. The life you have is not your own. In this life you have a choice. In eternity you must suffer the rule of the law. The life you will have here will be a blip in what we understand as time. Eternity is a much looooonger time. This choice is not to be taken lightly.

If you aren't desirous of the things of God, you are in good company. I know I certainly wasn't. But, inquiry, such are you are doing now, is a start. The next step is to read the Bible. You seem bold, then challenge God. Take His Word and begin to put it to use. See if He keeps His Word. But, do so with an open mind and heart. Pray and talk with Him. Ask Him to reveal Himself to you.

Your mind can be changed by your heart being touched. Never think it cannot. Many a hardened sinner has been turned on their head, or better put, placed aright. You cannot reject sin and its attraction. But, the action of the Holy Spirit upon your heart can..... and with it, a new life of clarity and peace.

Perhaps it sounds like hogwash. Perhaps it sounds like brain washing. Do you think you are capable of being brain washed? If not, then give it a try. The experiences of this life will be much sweeter and your eternity assured.

[Joshhhhh]

Your telling me that the reason for your creation was so serve god?

I asked god to show himself to me, or give me a sign that he is real, and nothing has ever happened.

I read the bible, I thought it was a boring book, Id rather read Harry Potter, it makes much more sense.

I guess I am going to "Hell"!

[Scamp]

It's ok. May God grant you the time you need. Just file away what I said back deep in the corner for another time.

.....and yes, our existence is one of humble servitude to a supremely holy and benevolent God. If you feel this beneath you, you do so in ignorance of what that means. I don't feel you are as hardened as you like to pretend, otherwise I wouldn't waste my time on you.