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Old 04-12-2008, 10:34 PM
 
552 posts, read 1,071,729 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HsvMike View Post
I know what you are saying Dieter, but it was a recited prayer that I did not know a word to. But anyway...

As I said, what is the harm of sitting quietly for a minute or whatever. Everyone says to practice tolerance, but what they mean is tolerance for their own views, and not the views of others.
There isn't any physical harm, but it's a waste of time. Seeing as how prayer can be done anywhere no matter how loud the surroundings are I don't see why it should be forced on everyone.

If Christians really needed to pray right before class starts, why not get there earlier? Why hold up the rest of the school?
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Old 04-12-2008, 10:48 PM
 
Location: Huntsville, AL
2,221 posts, read 2,921,903 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieter View Post
There isn't any physical harm, but it's a waste of time. Seeing as how prayer can be done anywhere no matter how loud the surroundings are I don't see why it should be forced on everyone.

If Christians really needed to pray right before class starts, why not get there earlier? Why hold up the rest of the school?
See this is how us adults think, just like the girls father. When I was in school if we could waste a minute just sitting there and being quiet, instead of doing school work, I would have been all for it. I know that one minutes time is crucial to the development of those young minds.

I think she is just being used as a pawn by her father. Whose best interest does he have in mind? If everyone didn't know she was an atheist, they do now. And I am sure it will be fun for her to be an outcast at school.

But that is just it, no one was forcing her to say a prayer. They just said sit quietly for a minute, or 15 seconds.
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Old 04-12-2008, 11:01 PM
 
552 posts, read 1,071,729 times
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You're right, when I was a kid I was always thrilled when class was delayed. That's why I loved my American Government teacher, some days he'd just say "I don't feel like giving a lecture, so do whatever you want". My Honors Chemistry teacher would go out for a smoke at least once a week, giving us ten minutes to just mess with the Bunsen burners, he was pretty cool in my book back then as well. Was any of this good for me in the long run, though?

You're thinking the wrong way, and it's very discouraging to an atheist like me. Why should she have to hide that she doesn't believe in God? Why is it OK for others to ostracize her because of this revelation? Why is everyone focusing on accusations of the father using his daughter to push his own agenda, rather than the issue at hand (prayer is being promoted in public schools)?
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Old 04-13-2008, 04:50 AM
 
1,009 posts, read 2,208,417 times
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Since when does silence = prayer? That's what I want to know. In this case the word 'prayer' was used, but if it wasn't, would 15 seconds of silence still be a problem? Who is against silence?

DAY of SILENCE : April 25, 2008
The National Day of Silence brings attention to anti-LGBT name-calling, bullying and harassment in schools. This year’s event will be held in memory of Lawrence King, a California 8th-grader who was shot and killed Feb. 12 by a classmate because of his sexual orientation and gender expression. Hundreds of thousands of students will come together on April 25 to encourage schools and classmates to address the problem of anti-LGBT behavior.

Silence is not only used by Christians apparently. And at least the prayer nuts are only asking for 15 seconds in a day.

Again, as long as prayer or any other slant is not implied during the 15 seconds, I can't see that students will learn any less. People are not like computers, 15 more seconds of download and you will learn that much more. Every teacher I have ever had throughout all of my schooling years has started the day with at least 30 seconds of random conversation, or asking students to settle down. Silence would accomplish the exact same thing. If a group was asking for an entire day of silence, that would be something to have a problem with.
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Old 04-13-2008, 07:15 AM
 
415 posts, read 610,363 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HsvMike View Post
Yes it was.
So, you just allowed the civil authorities to assume advisory authority over your religion, without saying a word about it?
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Old 04-13-2008, 07:17 AM
 
415 posts, read 610,363 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HsvMike View Post
...no one was forcing her to say a prayer.
Government has no legitimate authority over religion, including advisory authority. The Constitution grants the government no jurisdiction whatsoever over religion.

Last edited by FlashTheCash; 04-13-2008 at 08:30 AM..
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Old 04-13-2008, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,236,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiaroscuro View Post
Since when does silence = prayer? That's what I want to know. In this case the word 'prayer' was used, but if it wasn't, would 15 seconds of silence still be a problem? Who is against silence?

Silence is not only used by Christians apparently. And at least the prayer nuts are only asking for 15 seconds in a day.
If you read the law, and it was linked to above, prayer was noted as the reason.
You can have silence and prayer at home.
It's only for show or to get your foot in the door that you (generic) use it in the schools.
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Old 04-13-2008, 10:09 PM
 
Location: Huntsville, AL
2,221 posts, read 2,921,903 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieter View Post
You're right, when I was a kid I was always thrilled when class was delayed. That's why I loved my American Government teacher, some days he'd just say "I don't feel like giving a lecture, so do whatever you want". My Honors Chemistry teacher would go out for a smoke at least once a week, giving us ten minutes to just mess with the Bunsen burners, he was pretty cool in my book back then as well. Was any of this good for me in the long run, though?

You're thinking the wrong way, and it's very discouraging to an atheist like me. Why should she have to hide that she doesn't believe in God? Why is it OK for others to ostracize her because of this revelation? Why is everyone focusing on accusations of the father using his daughter to push his own agenda, rather than the issue at hand (prayer is being promoted in public schools)?
I am not saying it is right to pick on her for being an atheist, or picking on another kid for any reason. But this is life and kids can be very cruel. Honestly, I don't know if she was openly atheist with everyone there or if she kept her beliefs to herself. If she was open about it, then it isn't such a big deal. But if she didn't share that info with everyone, well dad did it for her.

The reason the dad is getting most of the attention is because he was the one spouting off about how wrong it is. He wanted the attention so he is getting it.

Personally I don't think there should be a mandatory prayer. But a 15 second break if kids want to say a prayer, or collect their thoughts, or just relax for a second does not sound that bad to me. If I was an atheist, well I might think differently, but I'm not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash
So, you just allowed the civil authorities to assume advisory authority over your religion, without saying a word about it?
I was not forced to say the prayer. I am sure everyone knew that I did not say it with them, and no one said a thing. I just bowed my head and said my own prayer. If I was forced to say it then it would be a totally different story and I would not have done it, I would have said something. But it is about respecting everyone else's beliefs, not just forcing everyone to respect mine. If I am in a 99% Catholic setting ( just throwing out that number, don't know the exact percentage ) and I am not, why should the 99% have to stop just because I don't believe the same thing they do? It does not make sense to me. There was mutual respect there, you do your thing, I do mine.
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Old 04-14-2008, 07:07 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,236,422 times
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If it is in a secular setting, prayer of any type is inappropriate.
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Old 04-14-2008, 10:06 AM
 
7,784 posts, read 14,865,696 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
If it is in a secular setting, prayer of any type is inappropriate.
So I can't pray in a restaurant?

Please clarify your rather general statement, chielgirl. I'm trying to understand the point you're making.

Last edited by Alpha8207; 04-14-2008 at 02:05 PM..
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