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"using more than OT thinking" does nothing to disprove that the church is adhering to OT views of homosexuality. It's basically an admission that they do use the OT to shape their views on the subject. Show me a case where church leaders say "the OT is wrong about homosexuality" and you might have a point.
Leviticus states it's a crime with punishments. A Vatican spokesman said "The Catholic Church is clearly against considering homosexuality a crime, but is wary of international declarations that use the issue to promote a political agenda based on sexual orientation" and "There is no question that the church is contrary to legislation that criminalizes homosexuality."
I sort-of get what you and Catholic Answers are saying, maybe, in that the origins are OT. However many things that originate in the OT were fulfilled or clarified. So what you're saying wasn't erroneous as such and maybe I shouldn't have said that. Instead you're slanted, misleading, and engaging in half-truths. I just don't know if you'd prefer that judgment. Even if it is more accurate.
VIZIO! PLEASE, you just made my stomach turn and lurch
It is shocking to me how little some of you here really seem to know about pedophiles and pedophilia
If you really understood this subject there is no way you could say that sex between two consenting adults who happen to be of the same gender is at all the same as an adult who RAPES a child
Your stomach otta turn because the only difference is one is a child who cannot reject the violence and is innocent, and the other is an adult who agree's to the violence and is guilty.
If you disagree we will need to see how the effort to express unity in homosexual effort, is not an act of violent aggression against
1) the other persons mental and physical health and well being, including all family and efforts throughout the generations.
2) a mutually agreed scheme to each greatly manipulate the other mentally and other, as a tool toward an attempt at unity
3) a refusal to exist within the obvious boundaries of our world, and change the intent of creation...viloently rearranging the world. ( abusive as child rape but with a ratification from the other in the abominable manipulating ...killing- gross and great manipulation in the intended, taking -that is the root of why it is wrong. Violence. Theft is the root of all individual and social degradation, it is rooted in fear and a precise violence. Not even mentioning disease and all the children who die from aids, I think there are daily figures. Also cost, research breaking their back for what..? Friday night..?
Basically you don't have a clue as to what your talking about or the gravity of the disorder from a Spiritual perspective. No self respecting religeon is going to say Homosexuality is not immoral.
4) An added violence to society as follows:
The damage set, by example. What an objectionable example to not only society at large but the youth. A complete insisting and manipulated objective to change nature, no different then a planet or star to insist, on spinning in the wrong direction..which we know would bring down what we have. People wouldn't be tools for manipulation would they, mutually agreed or not manipulation is manipulation..All mutually agreed implies is consent to un-natural known very dangerous ways, example is prob one of the most powerful communicating experience's man has. So now we have an example into society of consent to violence.
As you can easily see, the comments offered in the moment only don't have the faintest clue as to what they are talking about relative to a spiritual disposition.
Your posts have as much power as bringing along a Popsicle Stick and trying to stop this real event in clip below. /opinion.
This adds more to explaining the idea of Spirituality in the interest of OP question and notice in subject. Either people ( re a God idea)-(and don't care, simply getting it down) will go along with an idea of a God that is part or consequence re creation, or be delusional and make one up on touchy feelie nonsense and making nothing but excuse after excuse to suite taste, no different then a drug addict that insists whatever instead of a proper rehab in line with the rehab already set up in the body. So thats that and its pretty clear, I didn't make up the idea of 2+2=4 and its as simple as that...even youngsters can understand there is right and there is wrong. So there is no escape from reality unless a person wants to make up another fictitious world to live in and play god...and thats exactly who the god would be. Something then would be obviously missing and thats why this type of communication typically doesn't work...the individual is their own god, ( what 'seems evidential only, and only in this subject, and only in remarks, and only what is said in the moment. And, only in response to comments, not any individual in any way. /opinion.
I sort-of get what you and Catholic Answers are saying, maybe, in that the origins are OT. However many things that originate in the OT were fulfilled or clarified. So what you're saying wasn't erroneous as such and maybe I shouldn't have said that.
Glad we agree.
Quote:
Instead you're slanted, misleading, and engaging in half-truths.
So you say. Too bad you can't actually demonstrate that this is true.
Men who go after young guys and target them for sex, are homosexuals who like young guys.... If you fail to agree or understand then bring the supporting evidence along which would suggest some other inclination is in motion.
The whole position in this twisted quest, is in the frame of a homosexual act and cannot be anything else. Its as simple as that.
People are attracted to the young and healthy, not all together in a selfish way...its just part of nature. Example given, young models in the world. So if a Priest goes after a 13 or whatever 16 yr old guy...don't sit there like a twisted fool yourself and believe that the position is anything other then homosexuality, gay...what ever you want. The P term is for law and order and other identifying classifications. As a matter of fact age of consent dictates the P terms credibility, in the issue of crime therefore...your wrong. The P term is also used for acts against very young children outside of puberty but...thats never male gay P act is it..? Of course not ...the Gay male act is almost always against young guys in the puberty range and certainly NOT against little infants...
so basically what I'm saying is a little thinking is required before coming on line in a slanting tone as though you know what your talking about. Theres a few others around here so you have lots of company.
The passage I entered explains the conflict between the practicing Catholic and position held, in reference to homosexuality, where hate the sin love the sinner is in management by the individual and the interior . The wrongness is still understood and in this case a very grave wrongness. Supporting homosexual interests is encouragement and for a practicing Catholic, a concept which denies access to God, because it challenges God by disagreeing with him....if this is not understood I don't really care and find many of you guys unbelievably slow. ( who can never ever back up what they say or explain the issue in what they are talking about, its unbelievable . As a matter of fact there is an organized group of gay men from what I understand who are trying to lower the age of consent specifically to target young guys, obviously. The age of consent can't dictate whether a guy is gay or not. So these idea's that a pedophile act involving two males, one an adult and the other a young guy is outside homosexuality is ridiculous. Otherwise wheres the proof that Gay men do not like young guys and are interested..? HUH ( not impressed. We know gay men have no morals when it comes to sex, that can't be argued.
Meanwhile....we have a culture that promotes a twisted sexual practice which fuels a deadly infectious disease. Un believable.
When did this happen in history thats what I'd like to know, where a society promotes and encourages something it knows as a scientific fact is a deadly infectious disease..DC is over 3% and women are now getting it from bi guys who obviously are homosexual and have no preference. The whole thing has to do with decency, a person cannot qualify for a religion unless there is a will to be and promote a decent life....and then whats left is a boorish culture issue, thats where this is at, society maintains the lowest and most boorish culture possible. They will probably be successful lowering the age of consent, and then there will be so many case's that society will not be able to keep up with all the gay male pursuits against young guys, don't think so...check out the latest reports re gay guys who tricked and got into the priesthood in order to hunt down young guys. A person would need to be flat out stupid to understand otherwise. Gay guys like young guys and have no morals with respects to sex...thats a given.
Heres a start ..( sheesh-what a freaking world. Definitely devolving and now less then Neanderthal. I'm firm on that.
Definition of CULTURE
1
: cultivation, tillage
2
: the act of developing the intellectual and moral faculties especially by education
3
: expert care and training <beauty culture>
4
a : enlightenment and excellence of taste acquired by intellectual and aesthetic training
b : acquaintance with and taste in fine arts, humanities, and broad aspects of science as distinguished from vocational and technical skills
5
a : the integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon the capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generations
b : the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group; also : the characteristic features of everyday existence (as diversions or a way of life} shared by people in a place or time <popular culture> <southern culture>
c : the set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution or organization <a corporate culture focused on the bottom line>
d : the set of values, conventions, or social practices associated with a particular field, activity, or societal characteristic <studying the effect of computers on print culture> <changing the culture of materialism will take time — Peggy O'Mara>
6
: the act or process of cultivating living material (as bacteria or viruses) in prepared nutrient media; also : a product of such cultivation
*Back to connecting subject:
Teaching held firm in RC ..."Doctor of Church" Saint Catherine of Sienna RC.
...Our Lord speaking to St. Catherine of Siena
They (the homosexuals) not only fail from resisting the weakness of fallen human nature .... but they do even worse when they commit the cursed sin against nature. Like the blind and stupid, having dimmed the light of their understanding, they do not recognize the disease and misery in which they find themselves. For this not only causes Me nausea, but is disgusting even to the devils themselves whom these depraved creatures have chosen as their lords.
..It is disgusting to the devils not because evil displeases them or because they find pleasure in good, but rather because their nature is angelic and flees upon seeing such a repulsive sin being committed.. For while certainly it is the devil that first strikes the sinner with the poisoned arrow of concupiscence, nonetheless when a man actually carries out such a sinful act, the devil goes away.
The utter ignorance and prejudice in your post is what is 'nauseating'.
Here is just some of the research that shows it is most often men with a heterosexual adult sexual orientation, or a small pecentage of true pedophiles with no adult sexual orientation who molest young boys:
“..a child’s risk of being molested by his or her relative’s heterosexual partner is 100 times greater than by someone who might be identified as a homosexual."
(Carole Jenny et al., Are Children at Risk for Sexual Abuse by Homosexuals?; 94 Pediatrics 41; July 1994)
"The man who offends against prepubertal or immediately postpubertal boys is typically not sexually interested in older men or in women" McConaghy N. (1998) Paedophilia: A review of the evidence. Aust N Z J Psychiatry. 1998 Apr;32(2):252-65; discussion 266-7.
Behavior Research and Therapy
"Amongst the heterosexuals, the commonest remarks concerning attractive features of the victims, were that the young boys did not have any body hair and that their bodies were soft and smooth."
****************************** Archives of Sexual Behavior
“The research to date all points to there being no significant relationship between a homosexual lifestyle and child molestation. There appears to be practically no reportage of sexual molestation of girls by lesbian adults, and the adult male who sexually molests young boys is not likely to be homosexual."
Groth, A. N., & Gary, T. S. (1982). Heterosexuality, homosexuality, and pedophilia: Sexual offenses against children and adult sexual orientation.
**************************
Social Work and Child Sexual Abuse
"Homosexuality and homosexual pedophilia are not synonymous. In fact, it may be that these two orientations are mutually exclusive, the reason being that the homosexual male is sexually attracted to masculine qualities whereas the heterosexual male is sexually attracted to feminine characteristics, and the sexually immature child’s qualities are more feminine than masculine. . . . The child offender who is attracted to and engaged in adult sexual relationships is heterosexual. It appears, therefore, that the adult heterosexual male constitutes a greater sexual risk to underage children than does the adult homosexual male."
A. Nicholas Groth, William F. Hobson, and Thomas S. Gary, “The Child Molester: Clinical Observations,” in Social Work and Child Sexual Abuse, eds. Jon R. Conte and David A. Shore (New York: Haworth Press, 1982), p.136.
"In over 12 years of clinical experience working with child molesters, we have yet to see any example of a regression from an adult homosexual orientation. The child offender who is also attracted to and engaged in adult sexual relationships is heterosexual. It appears, therefore, that the adult heterosexual male constitutes a greater sexual risk to underage children than does the adult homosexual male."
“The belief that homosexuals are particularly attracted to children is completely unsupported by our data.”
(Groth and Birnbaum, “Adult Sexual Orientation and Attraction to Underage Persons.”)
“A gay man is no more likely than a straight man to perpetrate sexual activity with children.” (Stevenson, “Public Policy, Homosexuality and the Sexual Coercion of Children.”)
***********************************
Paedophiles, child abuse and the internet. Adrian Powell.
"An adult’s heterosexuality or homosexuality is not an indication as to the abuser’s sexual preference of children. As an example, an adult male abuser may prefer to sexually abuse male children aged between six and eight years while maintaining a heterosexual relationship with an adult female."
********************************
"While it is a commonly held belief that men who prefer men as adult sex partners molest boys and men who prefer women as adult sex partners molest girls, our study results suggest something different.
..
The 1,038 men who molested boys reported a range of adult sexual preferences. Contrary to popular belief, only 8 percent reported that they were exclusively homosexual in their adult preferences.
The majority of men who molested boys (51 percent) described themselves as exclusively heterosexual in their adult partner preferences. An additional 19 percent reported they were predominantly heterosexual, while another 9 percent said they were equally heterosexual and homosexual in their adult sex life.
More than 60 percent of pedophiles have other paraphilias. Many are exhibitionists or voyeurs. Of the pedophiles who molest girls, 21 percent also molest boys. Of the pedophiles who molest boys, 53 percent also molest girls."
***************************
And here is a general article by Dr Greg Herek showing how some conservative religious anti-gay groups misrepresent and distort studies like those above to vilify homosexuals.
The Catholic religion was the religion taught by Jesus when he was on earth. The protestant religions are watered down Catholic religion. In other words people who started these wanted things to be their way instead of God's way. For instance Martin Luther did not like confession, so he started the Lutheran religion and walla no confession! Give me a break. We should be going by "God's rules", not people's.
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