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Here is Mrs. Smith describing how the Federalists denounced Jefferson as a "bold atheist." She expected Jefferson to be "a violent demagogue, coarse and vulgar in his manners and rude in his appearance, for such had the federal party represented him." However, she found him "with a countenance beaming with an expression of benevolence and with a manner and voice almost femininely soft and gentle."
Here is Mrs. Smith recalling that Jefferson said, "I wish I had the powers of a despot" (so he could save some trees). Imagine what the right-wing slime machine would do with that quote, out of context of course, if Jefferson were running for President today.
Here is Mrs. Smith describing a preacher, at a service in the House of Representatives, attacking federal officials for desecrating the Sabbath with their dinner parties at the White House. The preacher also blasted Congress for enacting legislation that violated the Sabbath Commandment.
BTW, the House of Representatives, in 1800, met in a crappy temporary building called "the Oven." It is interesting that the Senate Chamber, the new beautiful Senate Chamber, was never used for religious services. I wonder why?
Hmm. Actually I don't know. If he wrote that (especially in a personal letter that he did not expect to be read by the public) than my theory may have a big hole. However, he often dropped lines like the one you describe above that went against religious dogma for sure (the key being "determined by one's works" rather than one's beliefs).
Some guy wrote a very good paper on Jefferson's religion. But I can't find it right now. He found everything Jefferson ever said about his religion, which wasn't very much, and analyzed it.
Quote:
I do know, however, that Jefferson blatantly contradicts himself many times in his writings. He was wily, and hard to pin down on "the issues". So I don't think that we can really pin a definite religious creed on him. I see him as an atheist (or at least agnostic) perhaps more than he saw himself that way. I think he was always curious about religion, and may have changed his mind about it frequently. When I was studying him more intently, I didn't focus on his religious beliefs as much as his political ideas.
As regards, the meaning of the Constitution, including the meaning of the First Amendment's religious clauses, there is an almost universal belief that the religious opinions of the founders somehow determine the meaning of the words of the First Amendment.
However, I reject that view in favor of the view that there were, at the time the Constitution and Bill of Rights were adopted, well established common "rules of construction" and that there is evidence that the founders understood that the Constitution would be interpreted according to those rules.
I discovered the "rules of construction" when reading Joseph Story's "Commentaries on the Constitution." Story devotes a whole chapter to the "Rules of Constitutional Interpretation."
Hmm. Actually I don't know. If he wrote that (especially in a personal letter that he did not expect to be read by the public) than my theory may have a big hole. However, he often dropped lines like the one you describe above that went against religious dogma for sure (the key being "determined by one's works" rather than one's beliefs).
I do know, however, that Jefferson blatantly contradicts himself many times in his writings. He was wily, and hard to pin down on "the issues". So I don't think that we can really pin a definite religious creed on him. I see him as an atheist (or at least agnostic) perhaps more than he saw himself that way. I think he was always curious about religion, and may have changed his mind about it frequently. When I was studying him more intently, I didn't focus on his religious beliefs as much as his political ideas.
You are right that he chastised religions frequently, but I think calling him an atheist would be a stretch.....agnostic at best. From what I have read of his works, it seems he believed in some sort of "God", but he was very anti-religion in the sense that we see it today.
You are right that he chastised religions frequently, but I think calling him an atheist would be a stretch.....agnostic at best. From what I have read of his works, it seems he believed in some sort of "God", but he was very anti-religion in the sense that we see it today.
These are a few quotes I found in regards to Thomas Jefferson's religious "thoughts".
"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature." - Tommy Jefferson
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Tommy Jefferson
"It is strangely absurd to suppose that a million of human beings, collected together, are not under the same moral laws which bind each of them separately." - Tommy Jefferson
That was all I could find for now, and it does seem rather vague. But, many other forefathers had other ideals in this regard as well. -GCSTroop (just to see if you're paying attention)
"I think vital religion has always suffered when orthodoxy is more regarded than virtue. The scriptures assure me that at the last day we shall not be examined on what we thought but what we did." - Benjamin Franklin (Perhaps this was the quote one of the previous posters was thinking Tom Jefferson said??)
I thought this was an interesting one by George Washington, especially for all those who say this country was founded as a Christian nation.
"The United States is in no sense founded upon the Christian doctrine." - George Washington
And although I can't consider him a forefather, I thought Abraham Lincoln said some truly remarkable things. I also threw in some of my favorite quotes from him because sometimes I think people forget some of the wonderful things he said.
"When I do good, I feel good; when I do bad, I feel bad. That’s my religion." - The Abester
"The Bible is not my book, and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma." - The Abester
Oddly enough, the Abester presented some powerful words stating his belief in God...
"But we have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious Hand which preserved us in peace, and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us; and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own." - The Abester
"I know that the Lord is always on the side of the right. But it is my constant anxiety and prayer that I and this nation should be on the Lords side." - The Abester (I couldn't figure out if this were pro God or not...)
"Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us." - The Abester
And finally some good Abe quotes I just generally like:
"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time." - The Abe Man
"Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves." - The Abester
"No matter how much cats fight, there always seem to be plenty of kittens." - Abe on cats.
"My great concern is not whether you have failed, but whether you are content with your failure." - Abe on being a failure
http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote/george_washington_quote_e5d8(now (broken link) according to this website, this was part of the Treaty of Tripoli of 1796 written during Washington's admin. It was eventually signed by John Adams... I'm trying to research it some more)
Is America a Christian Nation? (This is an atheist website, but does seem to coincide with #3 trying to find a more unbiased website)
Misquoting by Separationists (I can't tell from a brief scan of this website if it is christian in nature or trying to be historically accurate, but I think it also addresses it as well)
I'm trying to be fair, something I hate is when people misquote Darwin or other atheists intentionally. I recently accused someone of quote mining on another post and I'd hate to be responsible for that same err in judgement. I initially found the quote on the first link provided but I didn't do a ton of research on it either. If I was mistaken, it was not intentional. I think after reading all of these websites, you can draw your own conclusions. Mine is that Washington did not say this but John Adams, another forefather, did in fact sign it, regardless of the intent to "smooth" things over with the Muslims. And, that the document was also written during Washington's rein and then passed into Adams' hands shows me that two presidents had the opportunity to oppose that particular passage. So, from my point of view, I suppose I shouldn't have attached the "George Washington" label behind the quote, I should have attached "Our Forefathers" behind the quote.
I would call Jefferson a Deist because he did believe in a divinity, but not a personal god. I would only call him a Christian in the sense of following the teachings of Jesus because he said many times that he did not believe in the divinity of Jesus nor in the miracles. In the Jefferson Bible, he did cut out the parts of the gospels that he didn't agree with, which happen to be things like the virgin birth, performing miracles, and the resurrection. This is why he was a strong sympathizer with the Unitarian movement, though he never became a Unitarian himself. We Unitarians do love to claim Jefferson as our own, but I can't if I'm being completely honest. We can, however, easily claim John Adams (described as an active and devout Unitarian) as well as John Q. Adams.
http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote/george_washington_quote_e5d8(now (broken link) according to this website, this was part of the Treaty of Tripoli of 1796 written during Washington's admin. It was eventually signed by John Adams... I'm trying to research it some more)
Is America a Christian Nation? (This is an atheist website, but does seem to coincide with #3 trying to find a more unbiased website)
Misquoting by Separationists (I can't tell from a brief scan of this website if it is christian in nature or trying to be historically accurate, but I think it also addresses it as well)
I'm trying to be fair, something I hate is when people misquote Darwin or other atheists intentionally. I recently accused someone of quote mining on another post and I'd hate to be responsible for that same err in judgement. I initially found the quote on the first link provided but I didn't do a ton of research on it either. If I was mistaken, it was not intentional. I think after reading all of these websites, you can draw your own conclusions. Mine is that Washington did not say this but John Adams, another forefather, did in fact sign it, regardless of the intent to "smooth" things over with the Muslims. And, that the document was also written during Washington's rein and then passed into Adams' hands shows me that two presidents had the opportunity to oppose that particular passage. So, from my point of view, I suppose I shouldn't have attached the "George Washington" label behind the quote, I should have attached "Our Forefathers" behind the quote.
I believe it should be attributed to the Treaty with Tripoli or perhaps the U. S. Senate. But, to attribute it to Washington is misleading and wrong. Shame on you.
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