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Well since I cannot share my views I shall leave this thread with this. I agree it is murder to behead someone. I fear with attitudes like we see here this will only increase.
Glad to see you agree with us "godless atheists" and all of the "evil Muslims" I have met.
Not saying there are not Muslim crazies,but crazy isn't exclusive to any religion. I had a uncle who was stockpiling weaponry so he could outgun the BATF when they tried to shut down his Christian secessionist experiment. He never made it past the conversation stage but he and his "church" were trying to work out how they could stack the electorate in a rural TN county, seceed from the union, and declare the reign of King Jesus on earth.
Honestly a lot of the Muslims I have met are significantly more pacifistic than the Christians, simply becasue unlike most of us Americans, they have lived through war, oppression and violence. We have not had a war on our own soil in generations, and have really forgotten just how terrible it is.
How can I trust them when they will turn on you and kill you like the ones in the military and those who have come here and enjoyed our freedoms. I don't know which muslims are good or bad so why take the chance?
Should I feel the same way about Christians? After all they have a horrific track record, and are still trying to limit and deny rights to minorities... Maybe I should be pushing for the deportation of Christians?
Or, maybe you should try relating to people as individuals instead of making the erroneous and unfounded assumption that all Muslims are evil. Yes you have to take a chance, just like you take a chance everytime you shake the hand of a white middle class man that he might be serial killer, or that every black man might be a gang-banger, or that every gay man might give you AIDS. These are all ridiculously overhyped stereotypes, and when we give them any credence, when we allow ourselves to make judgements based on them, we make total fools of ourselves.
Bottom line, deal with people as individuals, not stereotypes, and you will be doing a huge blow to the kinds of crazy that cause people to mail letter bombs or drive trucks of fertilizer into government buildings. Want to do your part in making the world a better, safer, more equitable place? Ditch the stereotypes.
So Allah is a proper name in the same way that "God" is a proper name. I don't know arabic, pehaps some one else can comment, but it appears to me that you would use another word when referring to, say Hindu gods or Mayan gods for example.
In fact when looking at the shahada, you can clearly see that they use a different word for god in the generic sense as opposed to Allah as a personal name for a specific Abrahamic monotheistic god.
-NoCapo
I speak a fair amount of Arabic and a smattering of Hebrew and Aramaic. Although I understand the latter much better than I speak, read or write them.
In the Semitic Languages there is no capitalization. So you get a difference of spelling between a common noun and a proper name. The Arabic word for god, diety is illah, The Specific God is Allah the spelling of both is similar except Allah carries a siddah and alif over the second letter Lam Making it a single indivisible word that can not be divided into Al and Lah
Allah(swt) is a complex word and it is hard to get the full meaning into English, but a close enough translation is "The one eternal, uncreated, indivisible God who has no equals, associates, partners or progeny"
In addition in the languages closely related to Arabic (Hebrew and Aramaic) Allah is Elohim and Eli, The actual proper pronunciation of the Aramaic Eli (Spelled Alif, Lam Yah) is Allahi, not pronounced Eli as used in "Eli, Eli Lama Sabathanni" An Aramaic speaking Christian would pronounce that as "Allahi, Allahi, lama sabathani"
In the semitic languages "God" is spelled with the letters Alif, Lam Ha, "My God" spelled with Alif, Lam, Yah the Yah pronounced i denotes the possessive word My. "My God" being Allahi
Thanks, Woodrow! So I was off in my understanding that Allah is not a generic term, but rather a specific name or title. The only reason I can see that one would use Allah to refer to the god of another religion is when the god-concepts themselves are conflated. Each religion claims that there is only one deity, the other religions are just misunderstanding or misinterpreting the message.
You would never refer to Ganesh as Allah, for example, because the two deities are clearly independent and unconnected.
As a total aside, I was wondering if there are any restrictions or guideline on using Allah in Islam? If there is a different term that I should use (like Hashem instead of YHWH for Jews), let me know. I would have to be inadvertently offensive...
Thanks, Woodrow! So I was off in my understanding that Allah is not a generic term, but rather a specific name or title. The only reason I can see that one would use Allah to refer to the god of another religion is when the god-concepts themselves are conflated. Each religion claims that there is only one deity, the other religions are just misunderstanding or misinterpreting the message.
You would never refer to Ganesh as Allah, for example, because the two deities are clearly independent and unconnected.
As a total aside, I was wondering if there are any restrictions or guideline on using Allah in Islam? If there is a different term that I should use (like Hashem instead of YHWH for Jews), let me know. I would have to be inadvertently offensive...
-NoCapo
My friend I have never seen any of your posts as being offensive. You have always used the name Allaah(swt) with respect and that is all that is asked.
We believe there are many names for Allaah(swt). We have no problem with non-Muslims using the Name Allah when speaking of the Abrahamic God(swt). We believe all of the Abrahamic Faiths worship the same God(swt)
We also believe he revealed himself to all people. We believe Allaah(swt) has many names and attributes and we do not know all of them. We do know that in the Qur'an 99 attributes are used as names for Him and that the name Allaah(swt) encompasses all of them plus all the names we do not know.
A bit of trivia My wife is native American. In her early years she followed the traditional Lakota Religion and worshiped Wakan Tanka. Although she is Cheyenne her family had a closer relationship with the Lakota. In the 1940s she was one of the Children "Rescued" from the reservation and placed in a good Christian home to be given a good Christian upbringing.
When she was about 15 she ran away, got married had two children and was divorced by the time she was 20.
She did return to the reservation. Many years later she reverted to Islam. Through her and my Lakota friends I learned quite a bit about the Lakota religion and am convinced that Wakan Tanka is the same God we Muslims worship. I am not offended when my Native friends refer to Allaah(swt) as Wakan Tanka, because to me it shows they have an understanding of what Allaah(swt) means to me. Like wise I often refer to Wakan Tanka as Allaah(swt) as I am convinced they are the same, just that I believe the Lakota have forgotten the proper way to worship
As for how this refers to the OP. If the Culprit had been Lakota, would many people think the beheading was the result of following the Lakota Religion? Custer would probably tell you they were savages hell bent on killing all wasicu and need to be exterminated.
Not very long ago, the Lakota were seen much as Muslims are today.
An odd thing is prior to the Civil war the percentage of Muslims in the USA was considerabley higher, possibly 25% of the population compared to today's 2% (Many of the slaves were Muslim)There have been Muslims in the Americas since at least the time of the Spanish Conquistadors. Muslim are not new here and many Muslim Families have roots here dating back to before the Revolutionary war. Muslims have served in the US Military ever since there was a USA. It has only been in the past 15 years or so that this Islamphobia as formed. Even though many times in the past there was a much larger Muslim Population in terms of percentage.
My friend I have never seen any of your posts as being offensive. You have always used the name Allaah(swt) with respect and that is all that is asked.
We believe there are many names for Allaah(swt). We have no problem with non-Muslims using the Name Allah when speaking of the Abrahamic God(swt). We believe all of the Abrahamic Faiths worship the same God(swt)
We also believe he revealed himself to all people. We believe Allaah(swt) has many names and attributes and we do not know all of them. We do know that in the Qur'an 99 attributes are used as names for Him and that the name Allaah(swt) encompasses all of them plus all the names we do not know.
A bit of trivia My wife is native American. In her early years she followed the traditional Lakota Religion and worshiped Wakan Tanka. Although she is Cheyenne her family had a closer relationship with the Lakota. In the 1940s she was one of the Children "Rescued" from the reservation and placed in a good Christian home to be given a good Christian upbringing.
When she was about 15 she ran away, got married had two children and was divorced by the time she was 20.
She did return to the reservation. Many years later she reverted to Islam. Through her and my Lakota friends I learned quite a bit about the Lakota religion and am convinced that Wakan Tanka is the same God we Muslims worship. I am not offended when my Native friends refer to Allaah(swt) as Wakan Tanka, because to me it shows they have an understanding of what Allaah(swt) means to me. Like wise I often refer to Wakan Tanka as Allaah(swt) as I am convinced they are the same, just that I believe the Lakota have forgotten the proper way to worship
As for how this refers to the OP. If the Culprit had been Lakota, would many people think the beheading was the result of following the Lakota Religion? Custer would probably tell you they were savages hell bent on killing all wasicu and need to be exterminated.
Not very long ago, the Lakota were seen much as Muslims are today.
An odd thing is prior to the Civil war the percentage of Muslims in the USA was considerabley higher, possibly 25% of the population compared to today's 2% (Many of the slaves were Muslim)There have been Muslims in the Americas since at least the time of the Spanish Conquistadors. Muslim are not new here and many Muslim Families have roots here dating back to before the Revolutionary war. Muslims have served in the US Military ever since there was a USA. It has only been in the past 15 years or so that this Islamphobia as formed. Even though many times in the past there was a much larger Muslim Population in terms of percentage.
I like you Woodrow. Your posts inspire me to do more research. Growth inspiring. Thanks~
The fact remains that Islam is at war with Christians and the United States. Even if we choose to ignore what is happening. We must remove them from our country before it's too late.
*Sigh*...How much hate can people generate? Like seriously, doesn't it get exhausting? What did you learn? What did you solve? But I guess some people are willing to accept any kind of hobby, so long as it gives them a sense of purpose.
The media can get on my last nerves because they hardly ever show the good in the world; thus, impacting our world negatively for the sake of ratings, but I'm so glad they didn't put this up and all over television. Look what this thread has already generated. So discriminatory. Just knowing the wonderful friends I have who are Muslim, I'm offended for them.
I would venture to talk about racism and gender discrimination etc, but I'm afraid to see what else comes out of people's hearts on here.
Should I feel the same way about Christians? After all they have a horrific track record, and are still trying to limit and deny rights to minorities... Maybe I should be pushing for the deportation of Christians?
Or, maybe you should try relating to people as individuals instead of making the erroneous and unfounded assumption that all Muslims are evil. Yes you have to take a chance, just like you take a chance everytime you shake the hand of a white middle class man that he might be serial killer, or that every black man might be a gang-banger, or that every gay man might give you AIDS. These are all ridiculously overhyped stereotypes, and when we give them any credence, when we allow ourselves to make judgements based on them, we make total fools of ourselves.
Bottom line, deal with people as individuals, not stereotypes, and you will be doing a huge blow to the kinds of crazy that cause people to mail letter bombs or drive trucks of fertilizer into government buildings. Want to do your part in making the world a better, safer, more equitable place? Ditch the stereotypes.
-NoCapo
I am sorry for not being able to respond to you. They are not going to let me have the same freedom others have here. Very biased of them.
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Look what this thread has already generated. So discriminatory. Just knowing the wonderful friends I have who are Muslim, I'm offended for them. 