What's up with the classification anyway?

[NoCapo]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

I hear, understand and agree with your frustration about this, NoCapo. Because of the many meditation techniques and assorted hocus pocus I had to wade through during my early practice of meditation . . . I sympathize completely. Meditation was particularly difficult for me because I refused to give up conscious control (monitoring). I simply did not trust anyone or anything about meditation or what I was supposed to achieve . . . especially because there was so MUCH mumbo jumbo about it. I wanted to retain personal control so I could assure myself that whatever state I achieved was real to ME. I make no claim that you or anyone else must accept MY answer, NoCapo. I simply supply it as a data point for your consideration.

But it is useless data... There is no way to replicate it, no way to test a control, nothing. As such, it seems that it can only yield information about you, and not about reality itself. If I can meditate and come to the conclusion that a universal consciousness does not exist, then what? If it only applies to you, and is useless data to everyone else, why bother to preach about it so much? You just acknowledged that it does nothing to enlighten about the reality of the universe, as it is only valid for you. A true understanding of an objective reality would be objectively and universally true, not simply your truth.

-NoCapo

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

I hear, understand and agree with your frustration about this, NoCapo. Because of the many meditation techniques and assorted hocus pocus I had to wade through during my early practice of meditation . . . I sympathize completely. Meditation was particularly difficult for me because I refused to give up conscious control (monitoring). I simply did not trust anyone or anything about meditation or what I was supposed to achieve . . . especially because there was so MUCH mumbo jumbo about it. I wanted to retain personal control so I could assure myself that whatever state I achieved was real to ME. I make no claim that you or anyone else must accept MY answer, NoCapo. I simply supply it as a data point for your consideration.

Originally Posted by NoCapo

But it is useless data... There is no way to replicate it, no way to test a control, nothing. As such, it seems that it can only yield information about you, and not about reality itself. If I can meditate and come to the conclusion that a universal consciousness does not exist, then what? If it only applies to you, and is useless data to everyone else, why bother to preach about it so much? You just acknowledged that it does nothing to enlighten about the reality of the universe, as it is only valid for you. A true understanding of an objective reality would be objectively and universally true, not simply your truth.
-NoCapo

I am not preaching . . . I am witnessing to my understanding and explaining WHY I have that understanding. I was asked for more detailed explanations by a friend and I provided a Synthesis of my views for that purpose. I do subsequently spend much of my time defending my views from those who were not asked to accept them . . . but are obviously troubled by them, or annoyed by them, or otherwise irritated by them. It seems to be an equal opportunity assault from the believer side and the unbeliever side. None of it will alter my certainty . . . since that emanates from personal experience that I consider irrefutable. Otherwise, my posts here are an exercise in explaining and defending the intellectual conclusions I have added to the certainty. They seem to garner the most attention from the believer side . . . whereas my personal experiences seem to garner the most attention from the unbeliever side. C'est la vie.

[mordant]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

You really DO need to isolate your mind from the sensory noise it relies on to access the more direct "sensing" it is capable of. Unfortunately . . . it is not an easy discipline to acquire . . . especially if you want to retain conscious monitoring (observer status) of the altered states. I do not have any easy answers for how to accomplish this . . . and it eventually requires that you develop your own unique method. But it cannot hurt to try to achieve this deliberate sensory deprivation under conscious control . . .

I don't really see how that is different than basic mindfulness meditation, other than that it has a different (and somewhat predetermined) goal. You don't even state how you would know that you had achieved such a state apart from the implicit requirement that I would need to have an "aha" experience that causes me to arrive at substantially the same views as you have. I have to agree with NoCapo on this one, it doesn't meet the requirement of being objectively and universally verifiable.

[monumentus]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

RELIGIONS are man-made attempts to intellectually (or emotionally) understand God. Succinctly . . . they have nothing to do with whether or not God EXISTS.

Totally false. If you want to understand something then whether it exists or not is clearly the most important first thing to understand. The two things are inextricably linked therefore - despite your attempt to pretend they have nothing to do with each other.

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

I am witnessing to my understanding and explaining WHY I have that understanding.

Not a bit of it. You tell us often THAT you believe this stuff. I have not once yet heard the basis for that belief except you telling us over and over again you "felt" it was true one day while allegedly meditating.

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

I do subsequently spend much of my time defending my views from those who were not asked to accept them . . . but are obviously troubled by them, or annoyed by them, or otherwise irritated by them.

Also false. This is a discussion forum. You put forward opinions here and people will evaluate and discuss them. That in no way means they are "troubled" or "annoyed" by them. It is just what a discussion forum is for. While it makes you feel good to portray yourself as some lowly servant who is being put upon from all sides - you are not actually being treated ANY different to anyone else around here. Stop playing the martyr when you are anything but.

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Otherwise, my posts here are an exercise in explaining and defending the intellectual conclusions I have added to the certainty.

Which I have explained to you before is a BAD idea. Developing a certainty first and then fitting and cherry picking evidence and arguments to it retrospectively is just an exercise in confirmation bias. You essentially had a feeling one day - decided it was god - and have spent decades since informing yourself your arbitrary decision has a basis.