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Old 05-25-2013, 11:49 AM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,134,400 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fillmont View Post
He said that women were more into socializing, not that there are no men who socialize in a church setting.
I personally know a lot of men that like to socialize, though. So it's not that. If that were it, we would wonder why women are into socializing at church, and the men aren't.
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Old 05-26-2013, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
I personally know a lot of men that like to socialize, though. So it's not that. If that were it, we would wonder why women are into socializing at church, and the men aren't.
Because when men go to church, it's because they are looking for god, not for friends to socialize with...or are more likely there because their wives make them.
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Old 05-27-2013, 01:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Chango View Post
Because when men go to church, it's because they are looking for god, not for friends to socialize with...or are more likely there because their wives make them.
So men are willing to go to the coffee shop to shoot the breeze but they won't got to church to see friends? Why do you suppose that is?
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Old 05-28-2013, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Arizona
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Only speaking of the Catholic Church it may be because the Church is getting more feminine. The music, the gender neutral words( I doubt St. Thomas ever said "humankind"), the increasing roles of woman which is an American invention and certainly not church teaching, and the rest is more of the woman nurtures thing.
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Old 05-31-2013, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Central Maine
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Some people are ever looking for new ways to attack/discredit a belief in Bible/Christ/God. This is not a new one of them. If if one doesn't believe, what does it matter? Why do you waste so much time trying to discredit the Bible/God/Christ when you don't even believe in the first place? It makes no sense except for utter hatred and contempt and a sense of pride/superiority.
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Old 05-31-2013, 11:17 AM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 7,199,480 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DauntlessDan View Post
Some people are ever looking for new ways to attack/discredit a belief in Bible/Christ/God. This is not a new one of them. If if one doesn't believe, what does it matter? Why do you waste so much time trying to discredit the Bible/God/Christ when you don't even believe in the first place? It makes no sense except for utter hatred and contempt and a sense of pride/superiority.
It is because this thinking permeates the public sphere in politics and cyberspace. If believers remained in their churches, no one would need to push back with logic and rationality.

When I grew up religion was a personal and private thing and atheists, you would not even know they existed. Thank that McCarthy fella for this circa 1956.

Sceptics have always existed. Your bible even addresses folk like us that walk away from the madness of religion so that the average Joe can still continue unabated in simple childlike belief.
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
I’ve heard people make that type of baseless, pejorative comment; demonstrating again that 'free speech' doesn't automatically lend any degree of truth to what is said. True, history and ancient cultures were not big advocates of 'women's rights'. (Similar to some countries and cultures today). The Bible refers to the cultural bias's at a time when women were virtually considered chattel... but, certainly neither endorses or commends it.

On the contrary, scripture is very clear that, in God's eyes, "there is no male or female, slave or free, Jew or Greek." Claims to the contrary typically cite early cultures where 'women were not to be teachers,' were expected cover their head in church, and were/ (still are) expected to honor ('submit to') and respect their husbands, who are expected to do likewise.
You can remove about a page of scripture (1 Cor 11-14 or so) and there would be nothing whatsoever against women. But you have to throw the baby out with the bathwater, because dead in the middle is the long speech about Love.

Quote:
Some people are ever looking for new ways to attack/discredit a belief in Bible/Christ/God. This is not a new one of them. If if one doesn't believe, what does it matter? Why do you waste so much time trying to discredit the Bible/God/Christ when you don't even believe in the first place? It makes no sense except for utter hatred and contempt and a sense of pride/superiority.
It makes perfect sense. There are plenty of reasons people become atheists. Some of them are like that naturally because their background wasn't highly spiritual. Or they came to the belief that a reality without a god is more rational/logical. But like it or not, these people generally don't go out of their way to disprove Christianity. Other reasons? People bothering them alot trying to convert them, they dislike the idea of accountability to a higher power, or sometimes extreme grief. Usually, the most defensive and obnoxious atheists, are those who at some level not just do not care about a god, but actively are annoyed by it.

In other words, what they are most trying to confront their doubts about their atheism, by attacking them as if an outside force. The same way literalist Christians are harboring deep seated doubts, since literal Christianity doesn't actually make sense.

Last edited by bulmabriefs144; 05-31-2013 at 09:26 PM..
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Old 06-02-2013, 07:17 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,823 posts, read 13,357,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
In other words, what [atheists] are most trying to confront [is] their doubts about their atheism, by attacking them as if an outside force. The same way literalist Christians are harboring deep seated doubts, since literal Christianity doesn't actually make sense.
I can only speak for myself -- I have no doubts -- but I strongly suspect most of the unbelievers here have no doubts either. It takes a certain level of certainty to speak that which is taboo in much of society.

Your argument has a nice symmetry and could be true of a subset of self-identified atheists, particularly new deconverts who are still casting about, consciously or otherwise, for something that Explains Everything, and could just as easily attach to militant atheism as to any other belief ... because they have a need to belong, to make a difference, to crusade for something.

My personal motivation for being here is as a kind of atonement for my decades as a dedicated evangelical and a desire to plant seeds that will help others find their way out of that particular thicket if and when they are ready to do so. It is based on compassion for theists that arises out of my understanding of their mindset and motivations. Conservative Christians live in a bubble. They almost never hear BS-free arguments for anything. If they are here, they are either naive or they are at some level doubting and searching, and we owe them nothing less than to speak reality to unreality. I would have appreciated it if I had met people like myself who would challenge me to use my "god given" brains for a change.

Another class of unbeliever here is one who just enjoys the sparring, and there's nothing inherently wrong with that, either. They tend not to be former theists, though they can be.

I also think there's nothing wrong with anyone anyplace on the spectrum of (un)belief to sharpen their thinking and arguments through actual practice. That doesn't necessarily mean they are doubting anything, or that any doubt they have equates to an inherently weak position. When you engage an argument on its merits you are going to either confirm or bring into question what you already think about things, and it may or may not result in change to your position. And that is how we all (re)form our thinking. To suggest that anyone should have to shut up and stay out of it is disingenuous posturing, and I call that on both sides of belief. No one should ever suggest that unbelievers just shut up and no one should suggest that believers should just shut up (unless either one is offering unsolicited or bigoted advice -- and one thing people forget is that their very presence on a forum like this is asking for opinion; this is not the front door to your home).

What it IS legit to ask for is that debaters debate honestly and fairly. It is fair for responders to be expected to address the actual points being made rather than use deflections. I'd be rich if I had a nickel for every time I've taken the time and effort to clearly make arguments, X, Y and Z only to have someone reply with counter arguments for something entirely different or ad hominem statements, appeals to authority, or circular arguments along the lines of, "the Bible is true because the Bible says the Bible is true".
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Old 06-02-2013, 05:29 PM
 
Location: earth?
7,284 posts, read 12,900,631 times
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Internalized patriarchy/sexism.
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Old 06-02-2013, 07:55 PM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,083 posts, read 20,576,462 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
So men are willing to go to the coffee shop to shoot the breeze but they won't got to church to see friends? Why do you suppose that is?
According to an ex -catholic close pal of mine, because church is boring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkalot View Post
Only speaking of the Catholic Church it may be because the Church is getting more feminine. The music, the gender neutral words( I doubt St. Thomas ever said "humankind"), the increasing roles of woman which is an American invention and certainly not church teaching, and the rest is more of the woman nurtures thing.
If that means women are getting equality and the church is getting less authoritarian then, yes, it is getting more 'feminine'. I'd call it getting grudgingly in step with the rest of society.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imcurious View Post
Internalized patriarchy/sexism.
Bingo.
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