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Old 05-24-2013, 10:50 PM
 
258 posts, read 238,714 times
Reputation: 101

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Let's just brush aside the fact that virtually all of the founders of Modern Science were believers in a God who created an orderly universe. (Which is why they believed science made since in the first place since there was no inconsistency or arbitrariness to the laws of science themselves nor for the ability of the human brain to reason)

There are attempts at revising history and saying that Christians believed the Earth was flat before Columbus, a story completely fabricated in the 19th century and if anything it was an Aristotle belief system

But besides all that, let's get to the bottom line

If belief in 6 day creation holds back science, let's name all the inventions of the last 150 years since Darwin published the Origin of Species, that require million of years of evolution.
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:12 PM
 
258 posts, read 238,714 times
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I'll help narrow things down a little bit for the atheists.

Which one of the things on this list requires millions of years of evolution? And why?

Short wave Radio
Vacuum Cleaner
Polygraph
Teddy Bear
Air Conditioner
Neon Light
Crayons
Bottle Maker
Gas motored airplane
Windshield Wipers
Lightbulb
Teabag
Tractor
Cornflakes
Sonar
Synthetic Plastic
Color Photography
Helicopter
Car
Instant Coffee
Motion Picture
Tank
Gas Mask
Toaster
Robot
Traffic Signal
Loudspeaker
Spiral Notebooks
Iron Lung
Bubble Gum
Electric Shaver
Yo Yo
Scotch Tape
Frozen Food
Jet Engine
Drive in Movie theter
Nylon
Beer Can
Revolver
Ballpoint Pen
Strobe light
Photocopier
Electron microscope
Jeep
Slinky
Silly Putty
Microwave oven
Mobile Phone
Tupperware
Frisbee
Velcro
Jukebox
Cake Mix
Credit Card
Super glue
Power steering
Video Tape
Bar code
Soft Drink
Musical Synthesizer
Transistor radio
Hula Hoop
Computer Modem
Pacemaker
Microchip
Cassette tape
Soft contact lenses
Compact Disc
Kevlar
Handheld calculator
Computer mouse
ATM machine
bar code scanner
Floppy Disk
food processor
Videocassette
word processor
ethernet
Liposuction
Post-it notes
laser printer
ink-jet printer
cell phones
walkman
roller blades
disposable camera
High definition television
World Wide Web
digital answering machine
DVD
Mp3 player
Smart Phone
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Old 05-25-2013, 12:02 AM
 
8 posts, read 12,128 times
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Well, the simple answer here is...not a single one. Evolution does not involve anything on your list. It is simply the process by which life forms, over great quantities of time and many generations, change into new forms based on reproductive success.

For instance, let's take the first item on your list. Short wave radios do not reproduce. They do not compete for success in an environment that could stop them from reproducing, and do not incur mutations, migration, or genetic drift that cause them to change over time. In other words, they don't evolve.

Oh, and FYI, of course Christians believed the world was flat before Columbus. The belief in a flat earth was the reigning idea for thousands of years before him, in every part of the globe. In fact, your bible speaks several times of the corners/edges of the world.
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Old 05-25-2013, 12:09 AM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,138 posts, read 22,815,703 times
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Default What Invention In the Last 150 Years Requires Belief In Millions of Years of Evolution?

Every single human invention down to the first rock used by a primordial hominid to smash something required evolution.

Physical evolution to allow the cognitive ability to invent new ways of altering and using objects to become tools and cultural evolution to allow technology to continually develop new and better tools.

Unless god created the computer I'm typing this on, of course.... and I'm running Windows so I'm pretty sure it ain't divine in nature.

If you don't believe in evolution of some kind, you believe in stasis... and the world is obviously not in stasis.
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Old 05-25-2013, 12:20 AM
 
258 posts, read 238,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
Every single human invention down to the first rock used by a primordial hominid to smash something required evolution.

Physical evolution to allow the cognitive ability to invent new ways of altering and using objects to become tools and cultural evolution to allow technology to continually develop new and better tools.

Unless god created the computer I'm typing this on, of course.... and I'm running Windows so I'm pretty sure it ain't divine in nature.

If you don't believe in evolution of some kind, you believe in stasis... and the world is obviously not in stasis.
Now that's what I called sophistry.

Now again what invention was it necessary for the inventor to believe in millions of years of evolution?

BTW, what all those inventions truly have in common is that they took intelligence and intentionality for them to be put together. There was no blind random process of mutations and natural selection.

Yet life which is much more sophisticated with much more interrelated parts than anything designed by mankind is said to be the byproduct of just that.

Again a faith system by every since of the word. A full fledged alternative to Christianity as once described by Michael Ruse
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Old 05-25-2013, 12:24 AM
 
258 posts, read 238,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavarider View Post
Well, the simple answer here is...not a single one. Evolution does not involve anything on your list. It is simply the process by which life forms, over great quantities of time and many generations, change into new forms based on reproductive success.

For instance, let's take the first item on your list. Short wave radios do not reproduce. They do not compete for success in an environment that could stop them from reproducing, and do not incur mutations, migration, or genetic drift that cause them to change over time. In other words, they don't evolve.

Oh, and FYI, of course Christians believed the world was flat before Columbus. The belief in a flat earth was the reigning idea for thousands of years before him, in every part of the globe. In fact, your bible speaks several times of the corners/edges of the world.
Have you ever seen an "edge" on a circle? No the idea of flat Earth came from Aristotle. Spherical Earth is a concept that was understood by several different cultures 1000 years before the 15th century. But it's a cute theory proposed first by naturalists in the 19th century as a revision of history.

If any convictions to a belief system hindered science it's evolutionary dogma of stinking to concepts such as vestigial organs or Junk DNA. Or denial of catastrophic events in the geologic record. Slowly but surely and reluctantly these are being overturned
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Old 05-25-2013, 12:31 AM
 
8 posts, read 12,128 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATTC View Post
Now that's what I called sophistry.

Now again what invention was it necessary for the inventor to believe in millions of years of evolution?

BTW, what all those inventions truly have in common is that they took intelligence and intentionality for them to be put together. There was no blind random process of mutations and natural selection.

Yet life which is much more sophisticated with much more interrelated parts than anything designed by mankind is said to be the byproduct of just that.

Again a faith system by every since of the word. A full fledged alternative to Christianity as once described by Michael Ruse
What invention was it necessary for the inventor to believe in creationism? Nothing. The beliefs of the inventor are irrelevant until they counter the natural laws that allow their creation to work.

Life being more "sophisticated" than anything humans have designed is actually a matter of opinion. For every amazing feature that evolution has produced that we humans strive to match, such as the eye or brain, there are equally dramatic flaws in life forms that we humans strive to fix, such as the many genetic disorders. Evolution from random changes selected for viability over time explains both perfectly. Creation from a supposedly perfect deity does not.

Faith implies belief without supporting evidence. Sorry to burst your bubble, ATTC, but evolution has massive quantities of both archaeological and laboratory evidence to support it. Belief in what you can see and quantify is not faith in even the most stretched definition.
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Old 05-25-2013, 12:37 AM
 
8 posts, read 12,128 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATTC View Post
Have you ever seen an "edge" on a circle? No the idea of flat Earth came from Aristotle. Spherical Earth is a concept that was understood by several different cultures 1000 years before the 15th century. But it's a cute theory proposed first by naturalists in the 19th century as a revision of history.

If any convictions to a belief system hindered science it's evolutionary dogma of stinking to concepts such as vestigial organs or Junk DNA. Or denial of catastrophic events in the geologic record. Slowly but surely and reluctantly these are being overturned
Yes, I have seen an edge on a circle. All circles have edges. I believe the term that you may be thinking of is "have you ever seen an edge on a sphere".

As far as your second statement goes, it makes no sense at all. Massive quantities of our DNA is junk coding. In nature, many animals have vestigial parts or organs. This is not "hindering science", it exists and is undeniable fact...unless you can give me a good, solid, logical reason for whales to still have the remnants of their hind legs and pelvic girdle. There are no catastrophic events in the geologic record that are being denied. If you have proof that I am wrong, now is the time to post it.
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Old 05-25-2013, 12:48 AM
 
258 posts, read 238,714 times
Reputation: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavarider View Post
What invention was it necessary for the inventor to believe in creationism? Nothing. The beliefs of the inventor are irrelevant until they counter the natural laws that allow their creation to work.

Life being more "sophisticated" than anything humans have designed is actually a matter of opinion. For every amazing feature that evolution has produced that we humans strive to match, such as the eye or brain, there are equally dramatic flaws in life forms that we humans strive to fix, such as the many genetic disorders. Evolution from random changes selected for viability over time explains both perfectly. Creation from a supposedly perfect deity does not.

Faith implies belief without supporting evidence. Sorry to burst your bubble, ATTC, but evolution has massive quantities of both archaeological and laboratory evidence to support it. Belief in what you can see and quantify is not faith in even the most stretched definition.
Why do people do this? If you say something Democrat, it's what about Republican? If you say something Republican, it's what about Democrat?

I didn't say belief in any theory of origins was necessary for any of those inventions. My point is that theory of origins is IRRELEVANT to actual applied science. Yet one of the favorite talking points of those who are anti-creation is the idea that those who believe in creation hate science. That they are anti-science or hold back scientific achievement.

Evolution is a worldview just like creation. It's masquerading as science.
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Old 05-25-2013, 12:55 AM
 
258 posts, read 238,714 times
Reputation: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavarider View Post
Yes, I have seen an edge on a circle. All circles have edges. I believe the term that you may be thinking of is "have you ever seen an edge on a sphere".

As far as your second statement goes, it makes no sense at all. Massive quantities of our DNA is junk coding. In nature, many animals have vestigial parts or organs. This is not "hindering science", it exists and is undeniable fact...unless you can give me a good, solid, logical reason for whales to still have the remnants of their hind legs and pelvic girdle. There are no catastrophic events in the geologic record that are being denied. If you have proof that I am wrong, now is the time to post it.
Actually what I meant to ask was CORNER. Seeing how the Bible refers to the four CORNERS of the Earth

If the Bible was referring to a flat earth, since when in history does a CIRCLE have 4 CORNERS? If there are corners of a circle it's an infinite amount. That's why this is obviously referring to cardinal directions

The Bible talks about a day night cycle in the return of Christ with acknowledgement of the concept of timezones.

But that's a different discussion entirely. The main point again is that as faith clearly didn't hinder scientific achievement before Darwin, it doesn't hinder it after Darwin

Because views of origin have nothing to do with applied science other than serving as inspiration.
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