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Old 05-29-2013, 08:35 PM
 
995 posts, read 795,603 times
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I am not mocking the Bible when I ask for a moment of silence for the man written about in the Bible who decided to pick up sticks on Moses's Sabbath in defiance of Moses and his laws, and then was stoned to death for it. An I wish to have a memorial and moment of silence for the 3000 victims who decided to worship the golden calf in defiance of Moses and his terrorism, and were murdered for it. These people were freedom fighters, who protested PEACEFULLY. They had no civil rights as human beings, and they need to be recognized as heroes. For all these 1000's of years, there is nobody on Earth who has any compassion for them when they NEED it. I believe they need to be immortalized as heroes for freedom.
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Old 05-30-2013, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,197 posts, read 9,089,205 times
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I am all for appropriate punishments that fit crimes, so I go along with the idea that stoning is quite a harsh punishment for gathering firewood. And although I think it's a stretch to call calf worshippers freedom fighters, I agree they should have been left alone to pursue their own consciences. But ... a moment of silence for events that probably never happened, and indignation about Moses whose historicity is a subject of some debate ... these are things I can't muster.
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Old 05-30-2013, 04:42 PM
 
995 posts, read 795,603 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
I am all for appropriate punishments that fit crimes, so I go along with the idea that stoning is quite a harsh punishment for gathering firewood. And although I think it's a stretch to call calf worshippers freedom fighters, I agree they should have been left alone to pursue their own consciences. But ... a moment of silence for events that probably never happened, and indignation about Moses whose historicity is a subject of some debate ... these are things I can't muster.


If you talk to Christians and Jews on the matter, most will tell you that the man murdered for picking up sticks, along with the 3000 innocent Jews murdered for erecting and worshipping the Golden statue were all rebelling against Moses and his YHWHY. If what they say is true, that makes them all heroes who were standing brave in face of terrorism, and they gave their lives in order to be free, to have freedom of worship and freedom of religion. They deserve medals of honor imo. They are the true heroes of the Bible . I mourn for them, knowing how all people of the Bible spew hatred for them, making them out to be the bad guys. What Moses did was a terrible crime against humanity. Murder 1000's and frame God for it, as if he gave the command. TRULY evil. I can't think of anything more evil than that.
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Old 05-30-2013, 05:49 PM
 
1,638 posts, read 1,005,664 times
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Why do you want to rebel against a God who's full of good? If you rebel, your intentions can only be evil. For those who died, they made the agreement that everything God asked of them, they could keep it. If they didn't keep it, they in fact broke the contract. The punishment usually meant death if you broke one of the main ten. However, everyone who broke these commandments, didn't die. God is merciful and already knew the people could keep His commands. The difference is the intent of the person's heart. Take the man who gathered sticks. Was he gathering sticks in need of the warmth of a fire? Or was he gathering sticks in outright defiance of the Law? (because he knew the Law) That's why the people waited to see what was God's judgment concerning this man, because God knew his heart. The answer to the question had to be he gathered sticks on the Sabbath in outright defiance.
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Old 05-30-2013, 06:00 PM
Status: "Smacking fundies." (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
25,846 posts, read 13,431,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
Why do you want to rebel against a God who's full of good? If you rebel, your intentions can only be evil. For those who died, they made the agreement that everything God asked of them, they could keep it. If they didn't keep it, they in fact broke the contract. The punishment usually meant death if you broke one of the main ten. However, everyone who broke these commandments, didn't die. God is merciful and already knew the people could keep His commands. The difference is the intent of the person's heart. Take the man who gathered sticks. Was he gathering sticks in need of the warmth of a fire? Or was he gathering sticks in outright defiance of the Law? (because he knew the Law) That's why the people waited to see what was God's judgment concerning this man, because God knew his heart. The answer to the question had to be he gathered sticks on the Sabbath in outright defiance.
And obviously deserved to die.

That's some god you got there.

You're welcome to him.
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Old 05-30-2013, 06:13 PM
 
1,638 posts, read 1,005,664 times
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Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
And obviously deserved to die.

That's some god you got there.

You're welcome to him.
We act as though God is a regular man. He represents much more than just some opinion.
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Old 05-30-2013, 06:18 PM
Status: "Smacking fundies." (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
25,846 posts, read 13,431,022 times
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Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
We act as though God is a regular man. He represents much more than just some opinion.
Not "more".

He offers much less than any god worthy of the name.
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Old 05-31-2013, 04:15 AM
 
39,162 posts, read 10,865,034 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
We act as though God is a regular man. He represents much more than just some opinion.
In the end, one has to argue that human morality (which we are supposed to believe was given by God) does not apply to God who can do what He likes and whatever He does is Good because He does it - even if it looks bad to us.

Or one can understand that this makes no sense and such a god cannot be believable. There may really be a god, but it cannot be that one.
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Old 05-31-2013, 05:48 AM
 
1,638 posts, read 1,005,664 times
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Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
In the end, one has to argue that human morality (which we are supposed to believe was given by God) does not apply to God who can do what He likes and whatever He does is Good because He does it - even if it looks bad to us.

Or one can understand that this makes no sense and such a god cannot be believable. There may really be a god, but it cannot be that one.

God holds Himself accountable to His word, and that word doesn't change if God were to mess up for instance. According to Genesis, God knows good and evil, yet He makes the choice to do good all the time. Adam didn't know good and evil like God knew it in the beginning, but Adam did know of God's original command. So the breaking of that command was evil to him. He broke it, and death entered in. If God ever did evil, I imagine something like that would happen with Him. (That is God would become corrupt) Just some of the thoughts I had concerning it.


Let's take a look at that Sabbath command again, and the man who broke it. Now the Sabbath was a day of rest. That should be a great joy. Even the slaves could rest this day for crying out loud. It's a crazy thought for someone to say, "Nah, I don't want to rest. I want to work, work, work"! Really, you don't want to take the day off? You don't want to spend time with your family, play games, something? That is what we call in this day, a workaholic. I'm sure we know some cats like that today, and the ones I knew were always jacked up in their attitudes. This man was going to work himself right into an early grave. Unfortunately, that last part turned out to be true because he broke the command. Again however, many people broke God's commands, including the first Ten, but they didn't die. God was merciful to them. Yet this man intentionally broke this law, and God's judgment on him says that intention was wicked to the utmost.
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Old 05-31-2013, 10:13 AM
Status: "Smacking fundies." (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
25,846 posts, read 13,431,022 times
Reputation: 11681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
God holds Himself accountable to His word, and that word doesn't change if God were to mess up for instance. According to Genesis, God knows good and evil, yet He makes the choice to do good all the time. Adam didn't know good and evil like God knew it in the beginning, but Adam did know of God's original command. So the breaking of that command was evil to him. He broke it, and death entered in. If God ever did evil, I imagine something like that would happen with Him. (That is God would become corrupt) Just some of the thoughts I had concerning it.


Let's take a look at that Sabbath command again, and the man who broke it. Now the Sabbath was a day of rest. That should be a great joy. Even the slaves could rest this day for crying out loud. It's a crazy thought for someone to say, "Nah, I don't want to rest. I want to work, work, work"! Really, you don't want to take the day off? You don't want to spend time with your family, play games, something? That is what we call in this day, a workaholic. I'm sure we know some cats like that today, and the ones I knew were always jacked up in their attitudes. This man was going to work himself right into an early grave. Unfortunately, that last part turned out to be true because he broke the command. Again however, many people broke God's commands, including the first Ten, but they didn't die. God was merciful to them. Yet this man intentionally broke this law, and God's judgment on him says that intention was wicked to the utmost.
Yep, he was a go-getter, all right, that wood-gatherer. Definitely deserved to die.

Your god is quite a guy.

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