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Absolute nonsense! The corruption of Christ's Gospel found in the churches is what produces the result you seem to have such a problem with. The ignorant and superstitious beliefs of our ancient ancestors about Jehovah (YHWH) are at fault . . . NOT Christ. Christ came to correct those misunderstandings and lift the veil of ignorance over reading the OT.
Christ's God is YHWHY. That is where his ministry takes you to. All the miracles he performed were performed on YHWHY's behalf. Anyone who shows respect for a specific God, and then performs miracles on behalf of "God", then you are performing miracles for the sake of that particular God.
Jesus==
John 4 22 "You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews."
Then there's Matt 5 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Last edited by Rider's Pantheon; 06-18-2013 at 01:18 PM..
Christ's God is YHWHY. That is where his ministry takes you to. All the miracles he performed were performed on YHWHY's behalf. Anyone who shows respect for a specific God, and then performs miracles on behalf of "God", then you are performing miracles for the sake of that particular God.
That is NOT the issue. There is only ONE God so of course He is referring to His Father. The problem is with the ignorant and superstitious beliefs ABOUT God that are in the OT. Their "minds were blinded" (ignorant)!!! Christ came to correct them.
2 Corinthians 3:14-17
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16Nevertheless when it (the Heart) shall turn to the Lord, (Jesus) the vail shall be taken away.
17Now the Lord is that Spirit (Holy Spirit): and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
That is NOT the issue. There is only ONE God so of course He is referring to His Father. The problem is with the ignorant and superstitious beliefs ABOUT God that are in the OT. Their "minds were blinded" (ignorant)!!! Christ came to correct them.
2 Corinthians 3:14-17
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16Nevertheless when it (the Heart) shall turn to the Lord, (Jesus) the vail shall be taken away.
17Now the Lord is that Spirit (Holy Spirit): and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
The issue I have is this. If he was sent to "Correct them", then why did Jesus give any credence to the book of terrorism the Jews were so desperately imprisoned by? Why did he give any credit to any God like YHWHY and not say anything about it, or lift a FINGER to save the Jews from Moses by exposing him and his God that condemned him to the cross? If Jesus were a true savior, I would think he would be a brother who actually has a little compassion for those who are stoned to death for peacefully picking up sticks in an act of defiance towards their terrorist captors. He did not use a moral compass most likely because of the Bible. Supposedly he was a Biblical scholar, which meant he was indoctrinated into it. He was probably brainwashed. That is another reason I cannot not love him. Because I too was once brainwashed as he was. He was a victim like me. Either that or the NT was biased and the REAL Jesus had a more anti-Moses stand, and this particular media lied about it. Or Jesus is the spawn of the Devil, and helped to empower a great evil, as Jesus was truly the son of YHWHY. Take your pick.
There's no such thing as an ex-Christian atheist/agnostic. If you never acknowledged and pronounced that you were a sinner and Jesus Christ was your savior and the son of God, you were never a Christian to begin with. Being raised in a Christian household and church doesn't make one a Christian. I suppose that's why most atheist/agnostics can't understand that concept and thus believed they "left the faith and freed themselves". No, you left the church.
Absolute nonsense! The corruption of Christ's Gospel found in the churches is what produces the result you seem to have such a problem with. The ignorant and superstitious beliefs of our ancient ancestors about Jehovah (YHWH) are at fault . . . NOT Christ. Christ came to correct those misunderstandings and lift the veil of ignorance over reading the OT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
That is NOT the issue. There is only ONE God so of course He is referring to His Father. The problem is with the ignorant and superstitious beliefs ABOUT God that are in the OT. Their "minds were blinded" (ignorant)!!! Christ came to correct them.
2 Corinthians 3:14-17
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16Nevertheless when it (the Heart) shall turn to the Lord, (Jesus) the vail shall be taken away.
17Now the Lord is that Spirit (Holy Spirit): and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rider's Pantheon
The issue I have is this. If he was sent to "Correct them", then why did Jesus give any credence to the book of terrorism the Jews were so desperately imprisoned by? Why did he give any credit to any God like YHWHY and not say anything about it, or lift a FINGER to save the Jews from Moses by exposing him and his God that condemned him to the cross?
"Not lift a finger?????" You must be joking . . .His entire ministry was to correct the misunderstanding about the true nature of YHWH and He was scourged and crucified for it!!! You have some serious knowledge issues along with an inexplicable bias against Christ who is not remotely like the ignorant descriptions of YHWH in the OT. That means that the ignorant savage things they BELIEVED ABOUT YHWH were WRONG . . . NOT that YHWH was like that or did those things!!
There's no such thing as an ex-Christian atheist/agnostic. If you never acknowledged and pronounced that you were a sinner and Jesus Christ was your savior and the son of God, you were never a Christian to begin with. Being raised in a Christian household and church doesn't make one a Christian. I suppose that's why most atheist/agnostics can't understand that concept and thus believed they "left the faith and freed themselves". No, you left the church.
This is an old argument and is actually a fallacious ( No True Christian) argument. That doesn't matter. You can tell yourself until your beard turns white that anyone who came to realize what a load of bull religious claims are was never a real Christian in the first place.
That only helps to sandpaper the splinters of doubt for the protection of your faith -based metaphorical butt, it makes not a whit of difference to those of us who cannot accept the claims of religion, whether they are agnostic, atheist or just non - religious theist. Every one of those who deconverted can see through this accusation that they were never real christians to start with. They know very well that they were as real as any of the others, and not a single co -religionist was ever tipped off by the god they talked to that someone was faking it.
I probably don't need to research a load of example of those who, while they had to make a public show of repentance for some kind of Sin, still, presumably, according to you, are real Christians, simply because they still believe - or say they do.
One last observation, if you could produce anyone who can get from God a list of those who are not real Christians because they are (while professing their faith) are actually losing it, I might give your assertion some credit, but I would risk a years' income that you couldn't do it.
What's more, I would bet that you wouldn't even undertake to try, any more than any Christian would even try to convert me (in the way I have offered ) through prayer. Instead it would be 'It doesn't work like that'. Finding God only happens through brainwashing into belief in the absence of any sound evidence.
There's no such thing as an ex-Christian atheist/agnostic. If you never acknowledged and pronounced that you were a sinner and Jesus Christ was your savior and the son of God, you were never a Christian to begin with. Being raised in a Christian household and church doesn't make one a Christian. I suppose that's why most atheist/agnostics can't understand that concept and thus believed they "left the faith and freed themselves". No, you left the church.
Well, I have fulfilled your requirements to be "a Christian" multiple times. I would venture to guess that I led as many, if not more, people to Jesus as many "real Christians" on this forum. So, your assertion is unfounded and downright wrong.
Whether I fall away or not is not the issue. The issue is, if I (or you) really belong to Christ, can we fall away? Can that seal of love be broken? I say no, and I believe Scripture confirms that.
Just another case where the Bible contradicts reality. I have no idea why believers are so anxious to point out examples of their holy book being wrong, but I guess if you're not a literalist it doesn't matter.
Proves my point. You never loved Christ. You were just working on a "belief", and it faded away.
Emotion, that's what you live on? The birds of the sky would die of starvation before your false god could even begin to be capable of shedding a tear. The lotus of the ponds would be boiled into life by the Sun, before your false and imperfect heaven could even begin to be capable of designing it's beautiful imperfections. You never loved the TRUTH of REALITY. You loved a character in a book, and a character in your parents' and factionist tribe's imagination... you loved false and unneeded hopes.
The truth is, you never loved Zeus-Fater or YHWH of the Desert Moutain, which is why you don't worship them exclusively. If you had any real Faith and Love of Allah, than you would worship that character.
religion is not the opium of the masses, it is the placebo. ~ Hugh Laurie
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) through prayer. Instead it would be 'It doesn't work like that'. Finding God only happens through brainwashing into belief in the absence of any sound evidence.
You never loved the TRUTH of REALITY. You loved a character in a book, and a character in your parents' and factionist tribe's imagination... you loved false and unneeded hopes. 
