Losing belief that there really is a "God"

[Oleg Bach]

Jesus is not to be worshiped - He is a teacher - a door or a portal - to a higher state of mind and spirit. You do not discover the teacher and then hover in the doorway idolizing the teacher...You move through this open door and continue on towards enlightenment. REAL religion is eternal learning that lasts to death - and beyond. Institutionalization of Christianity - kills the life in the idea...it is about a living God - about God residing in your flesh. You are not losing your belief...you are maturing into reality -into truth - Christ said "I am the truth and the light and the way" TRUTH = REALITY. Only reality can save the world- Idol worship and deception will not save the world as we all clearly see.

[Nozzferrahhtoo]

Originally Posted by lovesMountains

I am so sorry for your recent loss!

When we are grieving I think we naturally question lots of things we might not usually question.

And usually in the wrong direction. Many people suffering from life hardships, grief, and many others things often are targeted for religious conversion. Such people are seen as easy targets by those wishing to convert them religiously. Exploiting the vulnerable is a common tactic of the religious.

But it seems it is not one directional and people suffering sometimes lose their faith in the existence of a god. Perhaps not as common as in the other direction but it at least is a good thing to come out of the bad.

It is a pity we need such stimulus to question things however. I question things daily. All the time. With impunity. I do not need to wait for some life shaking event to do it. It is hard to look past things like grief to ask "Am I falling for the god concept because I am emotional right now, or is there any actual basis WHATSOEVER to think there is such a being".

But when you do you remember that no, no there is not.

[TRANSPONDER]

Originally Posted by Oleg Bach

Jesus is not to be worshiped - He is a teacher - a door or a portal - to a higher state of mind and spirit. You do not discover the teacher and then hover in the doorway idolizing the teacher...You move through this open door and continue on towards enlightenment. REAL religion is eternal learning that lasts to death - and beyond. Institutionalization of Christianity - kills the life in the idea...it is about a living God - about God residing in your flesh. You are not losing your belief...you are maturing into reality -into truth - Christ said "I am the truth and the light and the way" TRUTH = REALITY. Only reality can save the world- Idol worship and deception will not save the world as we all clearly see.

While your approach to the subject (emotional or inspirational) is totally different from mine (analytical and problem -solving) this town IS big enough for the two of us, and I can respect your beliefs.

[Oleg Bach]

Originally Posted by AREQUIPA

While your approach to the subject (emotional or inspirational) is totally different from mine (analytical and problem -solving) this town IS big enough for the two of us, and I can respect your beliefs.

Few even bother when viewing Christianity or other old movements...of having a study and asking...How did these ways of thinking effect the building of societies over a long period of time? What were these "religions" originally before revisionism -political alterations and general loss of original meaning. Few even bother to ask themselves who was this Christ guy? What did he really propose before thousands of others over a thousand years re-engineered the original ideas?

That was my approach- I was not looking for salvation- or a way to present a bribe to get into heaven _ I just like the atheist wanted to know the TRUTH.

Yes there is enough room in this town for the both of us - I do believe in a source and force and unimaginable intelligence that is God...but one thing I do realize that most Christians don't care to acknowledge - That God is such a vast thing that it is not likely that this thing cares if you believe in him or not. If an atheists seeks the truth in all things and has a natural benevolent and good character - that's enough....I don't expect submission from an atheist and an atheist should not expect submission from me. I can barely submit to God let alone a fragile and flaw filled human being such as an aggressive atheist or a fanatical extreme religious zealot. None of us have ultimate and complete wisdom or knowledge - If we did there would be no reason for our existence.

[TRANSPONDER]

It's enough that a few ask the questions - and make their theories stand up. The majority get their information second -hand from the books. It is only a question of which books we use. I can relate to it that we work through different methods and that's ok.

[Oleg Bach]

Originally Posted by AREQUIPA

It's enough that a few ask the questions - and make their theories stand up. The majority get their information second -hand from the books. It is only a question of which books we use. I can relate to it that we work through different methods and that's ok.

Common sense and logic are not evil things. There are the books and there is you- The books will open up doors it is up to you to step in and explore what is beyond those doors. In the end you might hear a little voice that says "The truth was always in you"...and the books are put away and you continue - There is also the saying...You have knowledge what you know is enough..There are limits to wisdom and we all reach a point of comfort and venture no further.

[Nozzferrahhtoo]

I would think reaching a point where you have found "knowing" and then putting the books away is a bad point.

"scio me nihil scire or scio me nescire" or the Socratic paradox is one that I subscribe to wholly. That is, the definition of the truly educated or wise person is the attaining of the knowledge of how much one still has to learn.

We have seen often on these fora the result of people thinking they "know" and then turning off any attempt to seek new knowledge or education. People who were sitting around moaning to themselves and calling it "Meditation" who suddenly got a notion that "I just know god exists" and then turning off all critical faculties from that point on wards. The result is a constant stream of nonsense gibberish that in no way maps on to the real world.

So no I would say the complete opposite to you Oleg. If you ever find yourself thinking you suddenly "know" the "truth" then you do not close the books. You open them with a new vigor and you subject what you now think you "know" to all kinds of new inputs and trials and tests and modification.