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Old 11-11-2007, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
29,038 posts, read 45,196,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawgpz550 View Post
I usually try to stay away from these kinds of debates, but I guess since most of the other believers are in church by now, I'll have to chime in here on our behalf.


Genesis 6
20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. 21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them."
So I finished watching "Evan Almighty," and the animals did indeed come to him... cute movie, btw.
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Old 11-11-2007, 09:28 AM
 
7,099 posts, read 24,568,106 times
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I have never understood why we tend to assume that the "world" that was mentioned in Genesis is the entire earth as we know it today.

Is it possible that the "World" in the story that has been passed down by word of mouth was only the world that was known in that day? A local flood could have easily happened and destroyed the world as they knew it. The number of animals that had to be taken care of would have only needed to be those that were known in that part of the world.

What would have been God's purpose in destroying ALL the world? Even the uninhabited parts? The jungles, the frozen lands of the North? If it was done to destroy all the evil ones, it seems to me to be a case of overkill.
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Old 11-11-2007, 12:12 PM
 
116 posts, read 260,694 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawgpz550 View Post

Genesis 6
20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. 21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them."
You left out verse 19 Kawg.

"And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep [them] alive with thee; they shall be male and female."
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Old 11-11-2007, 12:20 PM
 
116 posts, read 260,694 times
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Magic required for the flood to be literal


1. In order to cover Mount Everest it would be required to rain at a rate of 30 feet per hour on every square foot of the Earth’s surface for a total of 960 hours (six weeks) non-stop

2. Four men and their wives building a ship larger than any wood ship ever known to exist – one and a half football fields long and as tall as a five story building --and gathering 2.8 million pounds of wood and hewing it into planks with only rudimentary tools.

3. All of the Earth’s plants surviving a year of being flooded with salt water and being buried by sedimentation and undergoing erosion, mountain building and continental upheaval

4. Vegetation regeneration atop newly deposited sedimentary rocks (no soil)

5. Animals from entire planet collected by eight people without transportation – including all microscopic animals that could not have been known to the people

6. Animals returned to diverse habitats worldwide by eight people without transportation (including very delicate animals)

7. Evolution of plants and animals more rapid than any ever proposed by science

8. Fresh water fish surviving a year in salt water

9. One hundred percent survival rate for pairs of animals for one year on ark – and successful repopulation of the Earth by each single pair of animals (when we know that in reality animals whose population declines to a few breeding pairs are very likely to go extinct)

10. Carry aboard the ark enough feed for all animals for a year (including carnivores and herbivores with very specific diets).

11. Environmental requirements being met for all animals with a crew of eight on the ark

12. Furnishing adequate climate control aboard an ark with millions of animals with a single 17.5 inch window

13. Repopulation of the Earth by humans beginning with less than one couple per every two continents

14. People living hundreds of years and producing children at advanced ages

25. Millions of cubic miles of water magically appearing, killing all animals (but magically not killing plants), then magically disappearing

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Old 11-11-2007, 12:24 PM
 
116 posts, read 260,694 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Padgett2 View Post
A local flood could have easily happened and destroyed the world as they knew it.
If it was only a local flood, what need was there for an ark. Noah and the animals could have walked out of the locality.
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Old 11-11-2007, 12:50 PM
 
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The Word of God says Noah's flood was global... so it was global. It was not local. If it were local, then God would have lied when He promised never to send another flood of this magnitude again. There have been thousands of devistating local floods, but never again has the world been submerged by a global flood. If it were local, the flood didn't come for 120 years, so why didn't all the animals just leave the area? Why was Noah instructed to bring aboard all the kinds of birds? Surely they could have flown away until after a local flood. Again, the Bible says it was global, so it was global.

Noah and his sons did not have to round up all the animals. He was instructed by God to build the ark and "bring" the animals with him in safety. Noah just had to make sure the animals got aboard the ark. God brought all the animals to him. And Noah did not have to take plants, sea creatures, microscopic organisms or insects. The bible only says all creatures who breathed through nostrils died in the flood (Genesis 7:22). Insects do not have nostrils.

And who is to say Mt. Everest existsed in the day of Noah? That's a presupposition based on evolutionary thinking. Biblical thinking directs us to a different perspective. It is suggested that there was one supercontinent (based on Genesis 1:9-10) in the time of Noah. The breaking up of this supercontinent via catastrophic plate tectonics can correlate to the "fountains of the deep" bursting forth. The mountains could have been pushed up during the year long flood and this is what the ark ran aground on - the mountains of Ararat.

What you call "evolution" of plants and animals after the flood I call "rapid speciation". All animals reproduce after their own kind. There's enough genetic diversity in these kinds to produce the various species we see today. Lions to domestic cats would only need one feline kind. Coyotes to domestic dogs would only need one canine kind, etc. etc.

If people really want to understand biblical creationists arguments, instead of just mocking our beliefs, I suggest they go to the following links and read up on it. All the questions do have reasonable, logical answers if you are interested. Get Answers: Noah's Flood and Get Answers: Noah’s Ark
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Old 11-11-2007, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,581 posts, read 21,783,025 times
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IMO this is a story about a widespread flood that did happen in the area..It probably did kill a lot of people and animals and destroyed a lot of the land and plantlife..maybe it was a tsunmi caused by an earthquake? Anyway, it happened before any written history..This is an example of oral history..I do believe that the story was written possibly by Moses and he included it because the story was part of the peoples past. Moses only had to change parts of it to relate to God. I think he was trying to make the people understand about the character and nature of God.( I think God inspired him to write but did not put the words in his plume).Those ancient people believed in many Gods and believed they lived in their idols..IMO, most of the ot are ancient stories that early writers changed and added God in order to help the people to understand about God. The flood story shows that we should trust God, even if it seems unreasonable..It also shows me that no matter how bad the situation seems at the time that there is a blessing at the end of it..In the flood tale God supposedly placed the first rainbow in the sky as His sign that he would never destroy the earth by water..If I was one of the ancient people of the time, I would have believed and passed the tale on to my generations too.IMO the tales of the ot are like fables, a story with a moral (Ancient stories based on one fact and changed to bring a message of God)IMO God himself preserved the important things of the ot for all seekers..That was the lineage of Christ and the prophecies about his coming and bringing of the gospels..(good news)His death, burial and resurrection and the meaning of..
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Old 11-11-2007, 01:02 PM
 
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The top 3,000 feet of Mt. Everest is made up of sedimentary rock packed with seashells and other ocean dwelling animals.
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Old 11-11-2007, 01:25 PM
 
116 posts, read 260,694 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mams1559 View Post
The Word of God says Noah's flood was global... so it was global. It was not local. If it were local, then God would have lied when He promised never to send another flood of this magnitude again. There have been thousands of devistating local floods, but never again has the world been submerged by a global flood. If it were local, the flood didn't come for 120 years, so why didn't all the animals just leave the area? Why was Noah instructed to bring aboard all the kinds of birds? Surely they could have flown away until after a local flood. Again, the Bible says it was global, so it was global.
The amount of water required to “cover the mountains” is approximately one billion cubic miles of water -- three times the total volume of water in and on the Earth -- in the oceans, lakes, rivers, Where did it all come from? Where did it go?

Quote:
Noah and his sons did not have to round up all the animals. He was instructed by God to build the ark and "bring" the animals with him in safety. Noah just had to make sure the animals got aboard the ark. God brought all the animals to him. And Noah did not have to take plants, sea creatures, microscopic organisms or insects.
Then how did plants survive being underwater for a year? If microscopic organisms were not on the ark how do we have them now. How did salt water fish survive when salt and fresh water became mixed...and visa versa?

Quote:
The bible only says all creatures who breathed through nostrils died in the flood (Genesis 7:22). Insects do not have nostrils.
Gen 7

8.Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,
9.There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
21.And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
23And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.


Quote:
And who is to say Mt. Everest existsed in the day of Noah?
What evidence do you have to show that it didn't?

Quote:
That's a presupposition based on evolutionary thinking. Biblical thinking directs us to a different perspective. It is suggested that there was one supercontinent (based on Genesis 1:9-10) in the time of Noah.
Suggestions are not fact, they are conjecture.

Quote:
The breaking up of this supercontinent via catastrophic plate tectonics can correlate to the "fountains of the deep" bursting forth. The mountains could have been pushed up during the year long flood and this is what the ark ran aground on - the mountains of Ararat.
You are arguing that the flood is literal. Conjecture such as "could have" doesn't come into it. Please supply your evidence that this did in fact happen...if you can't it is purely conjecture and speculation.

Quote:
What you call "evolution" of plants and animals after the flood I call "rapid speciation". All animals reproduce after their own kind. There's enough genetic diversity in these kinds to produce the various species we see today. Lions to domestic cats would only need one feline kind. Coyotes to domestic dogs would only need one canine kind, etc. etc.
So from two domestic moggies we get lions, tigers, leopards, panthers etc. etc.....and all in what.....5,000 years? Yeah right.

Quote:
If people really want to understand biblical creationists arguments, instead of just mocking our beliefs, I suggest they go to the following links and read up on it. All the questions do have reasonable, logical answers if you are interested. Get Answers: Noah's Flood and Get Answers: Noah’s Ark
Sure! Like anyone other than theists who want the story to be true would go to bible apologist sites for information. Do you have any links to unbiased, non-religious sites to support your claims?
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Old 11-11-2007, 03:07 PM
 
38 posts, read 87,581 times
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12. Furnishing adequate climate control aboard an ark with millions of animals with a single 17.5 inch window


That wouldn't provide enough ventilation to allow the farts of the elephants to escape.


What amazes me is that so many intelligent people can believe in things like this. Shouldn't the story of noah's ark be taken more as a parable? A testament to the great faith in God that Noah had?

In the Sumerian epic "Gigamesh" which was written before the OT, Noah appears as a great wise man who lived on an island.
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