U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-09-2013, 04:33 AM
 
26,112 posts, read 3,405,310 times
Reputation: 3970

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Carbon 14 dating is quite accurate for organic material less than 14,000 years old. Although that would only determine the year the tree, the wood came from, died (was cut down).
That's true, though generally (unless we are looking at deliberate fakery) we can expect fabrication within the century of felling.

Of course, a bit of Timber from 1st century Judea would have the right date, but how the heck could one know what it was used for?

I'd say the main argument against these relics (but the one least used) is how unlikely it would be that, by the time anyone thought how cool it would be to have the actual cross on which their saviour was pegged out to to dry, it would still be there to salvage, especially after the Jewish war, when the environs of Jerusalem was denuded by Titus' army of every stick stick of available wood in making crosses for the other Jewish rebels.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-09-2013, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,673 posts, read 62,698,028 times
Reputation: 35283
If (or when) archaeologists complete their study and determine that this was NOT part of the Cross, do you suppose that, with equal prominence, newspaper headlines blaring "Jesus' Cross A Fake" will shout themselves hoarse from the newsstands? Or will they just shut up, and let everyone say for the next hundred years "But they found a piece of Jesus' Cross, it was in all the papers"? Is it possible that the propensity for the purveyors of the "news" to down-play or up-play such reports has anything to do with a fatally skewed public perception of the facts?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2013, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
23,090 posts, read 13,868,778 times
Reputation: 13683
How come no one has ever come up with a claim that they have a piece of wood from the true cross upon which the repenting thief hung next to Jesus? If pieces of the Jesus cross somehow or other survived and were preserved, then why not the others as well?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2013, 10:49 AM
Status: "Banished cuz it's easier to boot me than the real trolls" (set 1 day ago)
 
19,953 posts, read 10,269,235 times
Reputation: 1933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
How come no one has ever come up with a claim that they have a piece of wood from the true cross upon which the repenting thief hung next to Jesus? If pieces of the Jesus cross somehow or other survived and were preserved, then why not the others as well?
My guess is that at the time no one would have thought to have saved that. There is no mention of any of the disciples going to claim the body of that thief, the way they went to claim the body of Christ. It's conceivable that they may have taken part of the cross along with, if he was nailed to it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2013, 10:58 AM
 
Location: NJ
17,579 posts, read 33,608,053 times
Reputation: 15869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
My guess is that at the time no one would have thought to have saved that. There is no mention of any of the disciples going to claim the body of that thief, the way they went to claim the body of Christ. It's conceivable that they may have taken part of the cross along with, if he was nailed to it.
Now I feel bad for the thief. He could have at least gotten a t-shirt. "I was crucified next to Jesus and all I got was this lousy t-shirt".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2013, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
23,090 posts, read 13,868,778 times
Reputation: 13683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
My guess is that at the time no one would have thought to have saved that. There is no mention of any of the disciples going to claim the body of that thief, the way they went to claim the body of Christ. .
There is no mention of any of the apostles claiming it. The gospels have it that Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body and took charge of placing it in the rock tomb.
Quote:
It's conceivable that they may have taken part of the cross along with, if he was nailed to it
Also the Three True Nails, all 6000 of them that appeared in medieval Europe, as well as getting the spear from that Roman guard, the veil used to wipe Jesus' face, the bowl Pilate used to wash his hands, a section of the whip used to scourge Jesus, the dice used by the Roman soldiers to gamble for Jesus' clothes, not to mention then getting those clothes from whichever legionary won them, the flask which contained the vinegar put on the sponge to quench his thirst, and the sponge as well.

Apparently Joseph of A was panning to open a Jesus Souvenir Shop.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2013, 11:52 AM
 
40,698 posts, read 39,889,077 times
Reputation: 42196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
How come no one has ever come up with a claim that they have a piece of wood from the true cross upon which the repenting thief hung next to Jesus? If pieces of the Jesus cross somehow or other survived and were preserved, then why not the others as well?
Shhh. I'm waiting to see what the True Cross piece goes for before I price this thing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2013, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,419 posts, read 10,112,478 times
Reputation: 7193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
How come no one has ever come up with a claim that they have a piece of wood from the true cross upon which the repenting thief hung next to Jesus? If pieces of the Jesus cross somehow or other survived and were preserved, then why not the others as well?
How would anyone know which cross they had a piece from, How could anyone tell the difference between the three crosses.

The Crucifixion business was a major industry during that era. Contrary to popular belief nailing was more common than tying with rope. The manufacturing of Crucifixion nails was probably the largest iron industry of the era. It was a very common form of execution.

Quote:
How common was crucifixion in the ancient world? Quite common, at least among the Romans. Though Roman law usually spared Roman citizens from being crucified, they used crucifixion especially against rebellious foreigners, military enemies, violent criminals, robbers, and slaves. In fact slaves were so routinely crucified that crucifixion become known as the "slaves' punishment" (servile supplicium; see Valerius Maximus 2:7.12). Appian tells us that when the slave rebellion of Spartacus was crushed, the Roman general Crassus had six thousand of the slave prisoners crucified along a stretch of the Appian Way, the main road leading into Rome (Bella Civilia 1:120). As an example of crucifying rebellious foreigners, Josephus tells us that when the Romans were besieging Jerusalem in 70 A.D. the Roman general Titus, at one point, crucified five hundred or more Jews a day. In fact, so many Jews were crucified outside of the walls that "there was not enough room for the crosses and not enough crosses for the bodies" (Wars of the Jews 5:11.1).

SOURCE


A little information about crucifixions HERE HERE

So many Crucifixion nails have been found that in spite of their age they are often low priced.

Crucifixion nails for sale. HERE HERE HERE HERE

There probably still are numerous pieces of Crosses and nails left to be found in and near Jerusalem all dating to the time of Jesus(as) and close to it.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2013, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
23,090 posts, read 13,868,778 times
Reputation: 13683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
How would anyone know which cross they had a piece from, How could anyone tell the difference between the three crosses.
.
Exactly my point.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2013, 01:24 PM
 
26,112 posts, read 3,405,310 times
Reputation: 3970
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
How come no one has ever come up with a claim that they have a piece of wood from the true cross upon which the repenting thief hung next to Jesus? If pieces of the Jesus cross somehow or other survived and were preserved, then why not the others as well?
As I recall, Empress Helena supposedly found not only the true cross but the two others with it, just to avoid all doubt. (citation needed - I believe I read it, but I may have dreamed it)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $99,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 - Top