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Old 11-12-2007, 01:04 AM
 
149 posts, read 304,357 times
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Their beliefs? I can appreciate that many of your claims that god has worked miracles in your life (because I'm not saying there isn't a higher power), however, what I don't understand is why many Christians blindly accept religious indoctrination (often with little to no evidence to support it).

These same Christians will balk at proveable, repeatable, tangible scientific evidence which makes examines a number of variables and ultimately comes to a heavily supported conclusion.

Why?
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Old 11-12-2007, 01:10 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,552,571 times
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well if there wasnt a god, i would definitely need rush down to the casino,
fantastic great odds i should be already dead. that probably has no meaning to you because it wasn't your concern.
actually i have been to the casino. im lousy at it.
so we are going to go with the god explanation.
sorry you are having such a hard time with that.
have a good night.
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Old 11-12-2007, 01:13 AM
 
Location: Anywhere but here!
2,800 posts, read 9,113,807 times
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I know this will sound far from logical, however, if you really believe something in your heart, there is nothing that can deter that belief/faith. I'm sure just about every Christian out there has questioned the reality and existence of God at some point in their life. It would be ridiculous to not question and believe "blindly" without cause.

Are you married? If so, do you "believe" your spouse loves you? Can you "prove" it beyond the shadow of a doubt? Of course not! All you can do is take his/her word for it. It's basically the same thing. We believe in God, because He has made Himself known to us.
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Old 11-12-2007, 03:14 AM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,715 posts, read 12,055,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawgpz550 View Post
Are you married? If so, do you "believe" your spouse loves you? Can you "prove" it beyond the shadow of a doubt? Of course not! All you can do is take his/her word for it. It's basically the same thing. We believe in God, because He has made Himself known to us.
The thing is that we can see the actions our loved ones show us on a daily basis. We can surmise that, yes, based on our trust in them and their actions towards us that they do love us. But, again, love is a definition that is parallel with what "good" or "evil" is. Suffice it to say, I do understand that Christians feel as if God shows them his love in much the same way a spouse does. The problem is that while I can see, touch, and hear my spouse show me love, it is with faith that people believe God exists and with faith that he loves them. So, while people see the good things in their life as the works of God, this does not make the existence of God true. This is not a good argument to parallel with a spouse because at least my spouse is something that I can prove beyond a reasonable doubt exists.
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Old 11-12-2007, 04:15 AM
 
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why don't the majority of the atheist question..a good amount of them aren't as educated as the ones that would come on a religious forum..they usually sum it up to the fact that they don't care...along with most religions this is true
but this being said the reason they don't question...is that they feel no need to question anything any further for they found the truth and every idea contrary to the truth that they've found is heretical
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Old 11-12-2007, 04:24 AM
 
25,084 posts, read 13,932,504 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F355 View Post
Their beliefs? I can appreciate that many of your claims that god has worked miracles in your life (because I'm not saying there isn't a higher power), however, what I don't understand is why many Christians blindly accept religious indoctrination (often with little to no evidence to support it).

These same Christians will balk at proveable, repeatable, tangible scientific evidence which makes examines a number of variables and ultimately comes to a heavily supported conclusion.

Why?
If u can appreciate GOD is a miracle worker yourself, then u should also understand Christianity and religion are not one in the same. Moreover, the Christian faith is not blind or based on "religious indoctrination" "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen." It is not a concept grasped from religious teaching or training. Real faith comes from hearing the Word and having a personal relationship with GOD the Father through HIS SON Jesus, the Christ. U either accept this truth or u don't.
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Old 11-12-2007, 04:41 AM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,715 posts, read 12,055,077 times
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Originally Posted by allah truth View Post
why don't the majority of the atheist question..a good amount of them aren't as educated as the ones that would come on a religious forum..they usually sum it up to the fact that they don't care...along with most religions this is true
but this being said the reason they don't question...is that they feel no need to question anything any further for they found the truth and every idea contrary to the truth that they've found is heretical
I can't speak for other atheists, especially ones that don't post on this board. But, typically speaking I think you will find that most atheists are, in fact, well educated. Well educated doesn't necessarily have to mean they went to an Ivy League school, it can just mean that perhaps they are well read. Regardless, why does the thought of a supernatural entity have to be the default "programming" that you suggest it should be? We are all born as atheists. We aren't born with a belief in God. It is only after children become subjected to the idea, usually from their parents, that they accept it as truth. The same goes for the Easter Bunny. We are not born believing in the Easter Bunny, we are told the Easter Bunny gives chocolate and small presents on Easter Sunday and because we are children, and susceptible to gullibility, we accept that without questioning it. It is with the same logic that we (or at least I should think) refute the existence of God as well as the Easter Bunny.

Again, I am not trying to speak for every atheist here, but using the same rationale and logic to deny the existence of the Easter Bunny, much less a creator of sorts, does not necessarily imply education either. I think what you see when you read posts on these forums is somewhat typical of many atheists. Many of us are well educated, by our own means or through institutions, and I think that typically we are inquisitive and skeptical by nature. In other words, if I wake up on Easter Sunday and there's an Easter Basket waiting for me, and I know it wasn't the Easter Bunny, than obviously it got there somehow. I think it is with that same approach that a lot of atheists look at the natural world. We say to ourselves: "Well, we ARE in fact here on Earth, we can use logic and reason to refute a creator, but it doesn't explain HOW we got here." And, I think it is at that point that we examine other options. I think a lot of us, but not necessarily all, turn to see what experts have to say. We ask the same questions that believers do. If no God exists, than how did man get here? How did the Earth form? The Sun? The Universe?

What ends up happening is that for many of these questions there are scientifically provable answers. But, keep in mind, because everything demands an answer doesn't mean one is available. Just because there isn't an answer available does not take anything away from our original rational and logic explanation that there is no God. Just as if you cannot fathom how the Easter basket got into your house, it doesn't make it any less true that an Easter Bunny does not exist, and it doesn't make it any less true that there is an Easter basket in your house.

Keep in mind, I also don't want to take anything away from the religious with this post. I am not implying that well educated equals atheist. There are tons of people who are well educated (both at the college level and a personal learning level) that believe in God.
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Old 11-12-2007, 05:12 AM
 
613 posts, read 1,155,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop View Post
I can't speak for other atheists, especially ones that don't post on this board. But, typically speaking I think you will find that most atheists are, in fact, well educated. Well educated doesn't necessarily have to mean they went to an Ivy League school, it can just mean that perhaps they are well read. Regardless, why does the thought of a supernatural entity have to be the default "programming" that you suggest it should be? We are all born as atheists. We aren't born with a belief in God. It is only after children become subjected to the idea, usually from their parents, that they accept it as truth. The same goes for the Easter Bunny. We are not born believing in the Easter Bunny, we are told the Easter Bunny gives chocolate and small presents on Easter Sunday and because we are children, and susceptible to gullibility, we accept that without questioning it. It is with the same logic that we (or at least I should think) refute the existence of God as well as the Easter Bunny.

Again, I am not trying to speak for every atheist here, but using the same rationale and logic to deny the existence of the Easter Bunny, much less a creator of sorts, does not necessarily imply education either. I think what you see when you read posts on these forums is somewhat typical of many atheists. Many of us are well educated, by our own means or through institutions, and I think that typically we are inquisitive and skeptical by nature. In other words, if I wake up on Easter Sunday and there's an Easter Basket waiting for me, and I know it wasn't the Easter Bunny, than obviously it got there somehow. I think it is with that same approach that a lot of atheists look at the natural world. We say to ourselves: "Well, we ARE in fact here on Earth, we can use logic and reason to refute a creator, but it doesn't explain HOW we got here." And, I think it is at that point that we examine other options. I think a lot of us, but not necessarily all, turn to see what experts have to say. We ask the same questions that believers do. If no God exists, than how did man get here? How did the Earth form? The Sun? The Universe?

What ends up happening is that for many of these questions there are scientifically provable answers. But, keep in mind, because everything demands an answer doesn't mean one is available. Just because there isn't an answer available does not take anything away from our original rational and logic explanation that there is no God. Just as if you cannot fathom how the Easter basket got into your house, it doesn't make it any less true that an Easter Bunny does not exist, and it doesn't make it any less true that there is an Easter basket in your house.

Keep in mind, I also don't want to take anything away from the religious with this post. I am not implying that well educated equals atheist. There are tons of people who are well educated (both at the college level and a personal learning level) that believe in God.
i was describing that their are people that question ...and people that dont questiong...in every way of thinking...and everyway of thinking is the result of parenting...or of some influential figure..with atheists bein just as prevalent in not questioning as any other mindset... i don't know how you can assume what a newborn baby believes in...it might be god ..or just a very spiritual out look...that one looses with programing of the world as would come with material objects and speech
but..i must say just like all religions some atheists not necessarily the majority of them are very intelligent and well read...you would be one of them...also the ones that you do get on this forum
i logically cant find no explanation for the world or the characteristics of humans or anything for that matter..besides some entity of thought and motive
also i refuse to believe that the only reason we are here is to perpetuate the species....which is if that an evil species that is ruining the earth for all the other species ...if i believed in such...that my individual existence had no importance other then this...i would be force to commit suicide...and so i choose to believe in after life aswell
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Old 11-12-2007, 05:26 AM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,715 posts, read 12,055,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allah truth View Post
i was describing that their are people that question ...and people that dont questiong...in every way of thinking...and everyway of thinking is the result of parenting...or of some influential figure..with atheists bein just as prevalent in not questioning as any other mindset... i don't know how you can assume what a newborn baby believes in...it might be god ..or just a very spiritual out look...that one looses with programing of the world as would come with material objects and speech
but..i must say just like all religions some atheists not necessarily the majority of them are very intelligent and well read...you would be one of them...also the ones that you do get on this forum
i logically cant find no explanation for the world or the characteristics of humans or anything for that matter..besides some entity of thought and motive
Actually, I think that atheists typically question more than any other "brand" of thinker out there. As I said, it seems to me, that atheists are typically much more skeptical of anything than most religious people. Perhaps that's why we are "outcasts" in a lot of society? No one likes to be questioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by allah truth View Post
also i refuse to believe that the only reason we are here is to perpetuate the species....which is if that an evil species that is ruining the earth for all the other species ...if i believed in such...that my individual existence had no importance other then this...i would be force to commit suicide...and so i choose to believe in after life aswell
You have the choice to believe whatever you want. I'm not trying to take that away from you, but I think that in order for us (atheists) to be accepted in the community there needs to be an understanding that we aren't the demonized bastards religion wants us to be. We aren't evil people (typically), and we actually do have sound reason and logic with supporting evidence otherwise. I will say that much.

One thing bothers me about your post though. Maybe it's just me, but it's the last two sentences in your response. I am not an expert at these types of things, but from what I do understand, subtle references to suicide can sometimes mean that a person is toying with this idea. I take those matters seriously, and if you want to talk about something, and it doesn't have to be about religion, than feel free to DM me and maybe we can talk about it?
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Old 11-12-2007, 06:23 AM
 
613 posts, read 1,155,436 times
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i honestly believe youre wrong...because most atheist that ive met...claim not to believe because they don't care...not of any logical findings
also though...i believe everything can be logically explained...so i would never claim that anyone was a demonized bastard or even wrong for any religion or lack there of(logically you might not understand that)...but what i believe in anyone who would refuse logic or knowledge..or just holds on to the ignorance that plagues them and everyone...would be the "demonized bastard"..and that goes with every religion...ive come to find that its definitely not of what you believe in ..its in how you believe ..and the knowledge you acquire
also ill say it openly..good call youre right..i have toyed with suicide..actually i have decided to a few times..presently no..but i believe humanity is regressing rather then moving forward...and that gives me great depression cause i feel unable to do anything about it...and also at times i feel like life is pointless and i cant even connect with humanity as a whole or individually .. and though i can fake it and always had friends and girls.. lately ive been becoming more of a loner.in that i only really socialize with those who i have found love for..but..i feel substantially different...maybe even superior at times...but also inferior at the same time because i cant truly connect..also it might be because im 19 years old and im having trouble becoming a man and merging with society..but usually when i get to the point of suicide...i have a curiosity of whats going to happen in the world...and choose to wait it out

i donno..most of you didn't need to hear that...but..its kinda philosophy so i thought if im going to talk about it why not have it out there in the open
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