The Future of the Universe (exist, create, quote)

[Padgett2]

Originally Posted by GCSTroop

Just a side note, there is strong evidence that after the first bacteria was "formed" on earth that the earth was hit by an armageddon-like asteroid that evaporated all or most of the water on Earth. What's even more interesting, is that in salt mines, geologists are finding remnants of these "microbes" suspended in the salt crystals formed after the massive heat wave caused by the impact. What's even more interesting than that is that when they are put into suitable conditions, they multiply at a rapid rate.

Hey!! that's interesting. I missed reading about that! Do you have a quick Internet reference to that? (our local library isn't the greatest) I'd like to read up on it. If you don't, I understand. My garbage brain is full of bits and pieces of information that I would have absolutly no way of finding again.

[Mooseketeer]

Originally Posted by GCSTroop

Ah, but here is where I put my trust in evolution. We may kill ourselves off, and we may take a large amount of earth's species with us, but I do not think we will take out all of earth's species. And, the strong will survive and adapt to their environment(s).

I really wish I could be around 800 million years from now when some ugly looking thing is digging up my bones and says "I wonder how they managed to get completely wiped off the face of the earth?" In fact, that just gave me an idea.... I think I want to be fossilized when I die.

Just a side note, there is strong evidence that after the first bacteria was "formed" on earth that the earth was hit by an armageddon-like asteroid that evaporated all or most of the water on Earth. What's even more interesting, is that in salt mines, geologists are finding remnants of these "microbes" suspended in the salt crystals formed after the massive heat wave caused by the impact. What's even more interesting than that is that when they are put into suitable conditions, they multiply at a rapid rate.

I quite agree, I don't think the Planet or all organisms will die. I have great faith in our planet to regenerate and evolve once again as it did before. I think micro-organisms and bacteria are in a bizarre way the building blocks of our entire biological universe.

I read the article regarding what you mention, it was fascinating. I also find it fascinating that until fairly recently we thought life could not be sustained under certain circumstances ( complete lack of light, oxygen deprived environments, extreme heat or cold etc...) and we are slowly finding more and more species which despite all that has been thrown at them manage to eke out an existence of sorts. Biology is truly an amazing science.

Still we are doing a pretty good job or eradicating many species from our environment and though i believe the planet will certainly outlive us, I wonder in what form...

[GCSTroop]

Originally Posted by Mooseketeer

I quite agree, I don't think the Planet or all organisms will die. I have great faith in our planet to regenerate and evolve once again as it did before. I think micro-organisms and bacteria are in a bizarre way the building blocks of our entire biological universe.

I read the article regarding what you mention, it was fascinating. I also find it fascinating that until fairly recently we thought life could not be sustained under certain circumstances ( complete lack of light, oxygen deprived environments, extreme heat or cold etc...) and we are slowly finding more and more species which despite all that has been thrown at them manage to eke out an existence of sorts. Biology is truly an amazing science.

Still we are doing a pretty good job or eradicating many species from our environment and though i believe the planet will certainly outlive us, I wonder in what form...

Without a doubt, micro-organisms and bacteria are most definitely the building blocks of our biological universe. Well, technically, cells are, but that's what bacteria is really.

Also, there seems to be a very large misconception that all living things require oxygen to live. That is not true. In fact, most plants and bacteria do not use oxygen at all except as a waste product. In the early days of our planet, when our oceans were filled with iron (mostly from heavy asteroid impact) and our atmosphere loaded with carbon dioxide as life was forming it used carbon dioxide and through photosynthesis excreted oxygen into the earth's atmosphere. Also remember that because the oceans were filled with iron that once enough oxygen became abundant the oceans started to turn a deep blue color as the iron rusted away. It's largely believed that the massive oxygen output of the bacteria in the oceans over billions of years is what created the amount of oxygen in our atmosphere today.

[cg81]

Originally Posted by GCSTroop

However, to me, where the problem lies is that if the end of times is so near, than why is our own sun good to go for the next three or so billion years? Why create something to last so long if within the next 50 years there is no need for it?

Interesting question!

If people are only going to live in a house for two years, why do they build it to last for 100? For those people that only lease cars and don't keep them for 20 years, why don't they build special cars that fall apart after 6 months? Why isn't my shirt completely worn out by the time I'm tired of it? Why doesn't my computer fall apart when it is no longer up-to-date for the latest software? Why are there leftovers in the fridge?

Profound questions indeed. I wish I knew the answers!

[GCSTroop]

Originally Posted by cg81

Interesting question!

If people are only going to live in a house for two years, why do they build it to last for 100? For those people that only lease cars and don't keep them for 20 years, why don't they build special cars that fall apart after 6 months? Why isn't my shirt completely worn out by the time I'm tired of it? Why doesn't my computer fall apart when it is no longer up-to-date for the latest software? Why are there leftovers in the fridge?

Profound questions indeed. I wish I knew the answers!

Actually I knew this response was coming.. I'm actually surprised it didn't come up quicker.

And although I can see the point behind it, we are talking about material things blar in a material world (sorry I just couldn't quote Madonna).

We, as humans, build things to last (well I'm beginning to question even that lately) but why would God need to do such a thing? I think the house is a perfect example. After all, I think you would agree by me saying that you believe Earth is God's house that he built for us, no? However, we have to remember that while we may build a house to only live in it for two years we wouldn't build a house that had no resale value. Or so we would like to think. No one buys a house and says "I can't wait to move into this piece of crap so it can fall apart in two years and we are forced to move out."

However, we have to remember that we are talking about two different entities. One, the material world in which we live, and two the world that God made (I'll entertain the notion that he does for the sake of argument). I can't picture an all-powerful, omnipotent being creating an Earth that would last far beyond it's intended use. There would be no point. Furthermore, I would think that an all powerful God, if he were to make something would be able to build something to last for eternity.

If God made something. To me, it seems we should look out at the sun and say "You know that thing is going to burn forever because we have proof." But, we don't. We know it's going to burn up in about 3 billion years. So why make something that in effect isn't going to last, and why make something that is used far beyond its' intended purpose?

I surely hope God isn't planning on selling Earth after he gets done with it. I'm afraid it'd be much akin to a crackhouse in the ghetto compared to other planets on the market. He may not get quite the return on his investment, especially when the heater is going to crap out in 3 billion years.

[cg81]

Originally Posted by GCSTroop

We, as humans, build things to last (well I'm beginning to question even that lately) but why would God need to do such a thing?

He didn't need to. He doesn't need to do anything! What kind of havoc do you think it would create on the world if people today realized that the sun would blow up in 50, 20 or even 2 years?

I can't picture an all-powerful, omnipotent being creating an Earth that would last far beyond it's intended use.

Well, I can! Why wouldn't He? Maybe He wanted to give mankind the benefit of the doubt and said, "Well, it could be that I won't have to return when I know I will...Let's give 'er a couple billion years just in case!" (Actually, I believe that He always knew when the world would end.. and if we're going to talk about "wonders of creation" which seem way overblown and much too complex for their use, I'm sure this discussion will never end!)

There would be no point. Furthermore, I would think that an all powerful God, if he were to make something would be able to build something to last for eternity.

You're starting to contradict yourself! You're only giving God 2 options.

1. Everything He creates must have a cut-off date (lifespan) geared to when the world ends.. (what about the earth itself... should it cave in at the moment Jesus comes? Should trees, etc, start dying off a year ahead of His return so when He returns there are only bare twigs left?)

2. Everything He created should last forever.

If God made something. To me, it seems we should look out at the sun and say "You know that thing is going to burn forever because we have proof." But, we don't. We know it's going to burn up in about 3 billion years.

You really don't have concrete proof either way!

I surely hope God isn't planning on selling Earth after he gets done with it. I'm afraid it'd be much akin to a crackhouse in the ghetto compared to other planets on the market. He may not get quite the return on his investment, especially when the heater is going to crap out in 3 billion years.

LOL!

BTW, it does say in the Bible that the earth will burn up, "the elements shall melt with fervent heat." The sun WILL eventually burn up.. on this point we can agree.. it's just that I think it will be before 3 billion years.

[Travelling fella]

Originally Posted by GCSTroop

Actually I knew this response was coming.. I'm actually surprised it didn't come up quicker.

And although I can see the point behind it, we are talking about material things blar in a material world (sorry I just couldn't quote Madonna).

We, as humans, build things to last (well I'm beginning to question even that lately) but why would God need to do such a thing? I think the house is a perfect example. After all, I think you would agree by me saying that you believe Earth is God's house that he built for us, no? However, we have to remember that while we may build a house to only live in it for two years we wouldn't build a house that had no resale value. Or so we would like to think. No one buys a house and says "I can't wait to move into this piece of crap so it can fall apart in two years and we are forced to move out."

However, we have to remember that we are talking about two different entities. One, the material world in which we live, and two the world that God made (I'll entertain the notion that he does for the sake of argument). I can't picture an all-powerful, omnipotent being creating an Earth that would last far beyond it's intended use. There would be no point. Furthermore, I would think that an all powerful God, if he were to make something would be able to build something to last for eternity.

If God made something. To me, it seems we should look out at the sun and say "You know that thing is going to burn forever because we have proof." But, we don't. We know it's going to burn up in about 3 billion years. So why make something that in effect isn't going to last, and why make something that is used far beyond its' intended purpose?

I surely hope God isn't planning on selling Earth after he gets done with it. I'm afraid it'd be much akin to a crackhouse in the ghetto compared to other planets on the market. He may not get quite the return on his investment, especially when the heater is going to crap out in 3 billion years.

Imho it's hard or imposible to understand God by reason only.

But the following questions came to mind after reading this post.

Are we the only planet with life in the entire universe?
Are we human beings the only species that matter to God?
Why there were dinosaurs and single cell organisms well before us?
Do you think that if we human beings disappear from this planet, life will go on?
Do you believe in yugas? Yuga - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Do you believe in reincarnation?
Have you read the holy science? The Holy Science - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


And finally what if the second coming of christ happens in the satya yuga? (I believe in the cyclical nature of universe, with positive and negative cycles of evolution and involution, if the universe is composed of vibrations and these vibrations have 2 phases why not our evolution?)

1. Satya Yuga or Krita Yuga: dhyana (meditation). In the highest yuga, the great majority of people can experience spirituality by direct intuitive realization of truth. The veil between the material and the transcendent realms becomes almost transparent. According to Natya Shastra, there are no Natya performances in the Krita Yuga because it is a period free from any kind of unhappiness or misery. Satya Yuga is also called the Golden Age.

imho that is the second coming of christ, when he is born again in our hearts and all human beings develop the Christ conciousness but ymmv

[b. frank]

Originally Posted by Mooseketeer

I don't think the Planet or all organisms will die.

I've been saying since the 80s:
The EARTH is not going to die - just the animals living on its crust.
No need to "Save the Planet" - it will do just fine with or without us.

And if it doesn't - who cares? Not the planet itself. It's a planet.
Why can't we admit that all we want is to save OURSELVES?
Then maybe we could get somewhere.

The point is that we are very arrogant about our own existence.
We even go so far as to attribute the Earth with human characteristics like pain and sorrow.

[saltine]

Time is God's creation, He himself is not subject to the dimension of time.
For a thousand years in your sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.Psa.90:4

[Love2all]

Originally Posted by GCSTroop

Ah, but here is where I put my trust in evolution. We may kill ourselves off, and we may take a large amount of earth's species with us, but I do not think we will take out all of earth's species. And, the strong will survive and adapt to their environment(s).

I really wish I could be around 800 million years from now when some ugly looking thing is digging up my bones and says "I wonder how they managed to get completely wiped off the face of the earth?" In fact, that just gave me an idea.... I think I want to be fossilized when I die.

Just a side note, there is strong evidence that after the first bacteria was "formed" on earth that the earth was hit by an armageddon-like asteroid that evaporated all or most of the water on Earth. What's even more interesting, is that in salt mines, geologists are finding remnants of these "microbes" suspended in the salt crystals formed after the massive heat wave caused by the impact. What's even more interesting than that is that when they are put into suitable conditions, they multiply at a rapid rate.

"I think I want to be fossilized when I die."

Good Idea!!! But how many years does it take for fossilization to happen???

Certainly less than 6000 years..