Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Is evolutionary theory accurate?
Yes. I believe the evolutionary theory is accurate. 210 58.82%
Yes. But I think aspects of the theory is flawed. 58 16.25%
No. I think it's completely flawed. 18 5.04%
No. I believe in creationism. 65 18.21%
I don't know. 6 1.68%
Voters: 357. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 01-12-2008, 10:23 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
206 posts, read 578,290 times
Reputation: 83

Advertisements

The concept of order is simply a part of human understanding. When forces act upon oneanother in ways that we can predict, you can call that order if you like.

You can claim that things operating in a predictable manner is evidence of a designer if you like, but it isn't all that convincing.

For example, take the snowflake. When they form, the water crystalizes in distinct, usually symmetrical* patterns which are defined by the conditions. The patterns are obviously not random, and once we learned how the processes involved interact, we gain an understanding of what is going on and can use that knowledge predictively.

*Most snowflakes end up with a flaw or two in their symmetry.

There are two ways to look at this really. One is to look at the snowflake as being a result of various forces interacting and producing a predictable phenomenon as a result.

The other would be to bring another factor into the equation and call it a designer, or a patron of order. For example, I could explain the apparent "design" of snowflakes by bringing magical snowflake gnomes into the mixture who meticulously craft every snowflake from solid ice which they conjure with their mystic powers.

Of course, the gnomes are not infallable, especially since they have a drinking habit which causes them to usually make a mistake or two during the snowflake forming process.

=====

There, we now have two explanations for snowflakes. I am sure everyone is going to go put out an offering of booze for the snowflake gnomes in order to ensure easy shoveling this winter.


It is all a matter of perception which is very clear on the most basic level, but can be more difficult to grasp when things get more complex.

For example, if you take a big bowl full of mixed nuts of various sizes and gently shake it, the nuts will seem to order themselves. The larger nuts will have a tendency to rise to the top and the smaller nuts will tend to move to the bottom. There isn't a genie moving the nuts. They are just being acted upon by forces which operate in a predictable way. After a while, we learned how those forces operate, and thus were born the laws of physics.

Take a bucket of sand and pour it slowly onto a flat surface and it will form a conical shape. It is the same basic concept.

It is always forces acting upon oneanother. When we understand it and can predict it, we call it order and sometimes mistake it as being designed by something with intelligence.

You won't find many who will make that mistake with nuts seeming to sort themselves, but when you get to something that is not so easily understood, people start inventing patrons for the order they percieve.

It becomes genuinely easy to invent patrons of order for things we have virtually no understanding of, like the origin of matter. Still, I see no reason to start inventing entities to fill in the gaps in our knowledge, when we can just say "I don't know, let's find out." It may not be as emotionally satisfying, but it is intellectually honest.

Last edited by MRiedl; 01-12-2008 at 10:36 PM..

 
Old 01-13-2008, 01:41 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,568 posts, read 16,233,536 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by paul1961
Quote:
Im not saying that something that is not understood is choas. Im saying that I admit that there are aspects of this amazing physical realm that are beyond our ability to understand
All true, but like I said that if the Wright Brothers had your attitude they never would've invented an airplane.
I am just not one who says I can't without never having ever tried to, while most Christians would because they believe that they are defying God (or the Bible) directly. I'm also not saying that because something is impossible, it automatically means that it would also be impossible for future generations.
Simply because I do not know what the future will bring.
 
Old 01-13-2008, 03:59 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
8,396 posts, read 9,442,882 times
Reputation: 4070
Lightbulb Do you support evolution?

Nature requires no support.

Nature is unconcerned with opinion.
 
Old 01-13-2008, 04:35 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,568 posts, read 16,233,536 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by skoro
Quote:
Nature requires no support.
True, but when we act against the common sense of nature we do so at our own risk.
So we humanity need the support of nature.
 
Old 01-13-2008, 07:55 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
8,396 posts, read 9,442,882 times
Reputation: 4070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by skoroTrue, but when we act against the common sense of nature we do so at our own risk.
So we humanity need the support of nature.
We can understand nature and use that understanding to our advantage. New discoveries lead to technology. Technology leads to efficiency, and that in turn improves our lives.

But nature is wholly indifferent to human activity. Opinions play no part.
 
Old 01-13-2008, 08:26 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,568 posts, read 16,233,536 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by skoro
Quote:
Opinions play no part.
Obviously not when it comes to nature, but when it comes to technology the 'public' opinion is the only thing that matters.
And often these opinions are created (or supported) by the rich and powerful.
 
Old 01-13-2008, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,915 posts, read 18,624,668 times
Reputation: 5524
Paul1961 wrote:
Quote:
What your saying is that eventually man will not only understand how atoms think ,touch,feel,see,dream,judge .....ect but even make a atom out of nothing give it characteristics,properties,purpose and meaning. No way.
I didn't quite get the meaning of your statement but atoms don't have brains so they don't think or dream about anything. I said that artificial intelligence does have the potential to resemble human mental characteristics on my earlier post. This isn't creating life but a computer can now beat the best chess player in the world so I think you could state that it has purpose. What I find interesting is the possibility that at some point in the future we could develop computer software that would mimic human consciousness and actually be aware of it's own existence. What seems like science fiction today is likely to become a reality in the future.
 
Old 01-13-2008, 09:04 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,568 posts, read 16,233,536 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy
Quote:
What I find interesting is the possibility that at some point in the future we could develop computer software that would mimic human consciousness and actually be aware of it's own existence.
I don't wanna rain down on your parade, but obviously you have never seen the Terminator (with governator Schwarzenegger)?
Computers becoming self-aware might not be a good thing.
 
Old 01-13-2008, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,538,911 times
Reputation: 24780
Default Do you support evolution?

No, I don't.

But then, I do not "support" gravity, electromagnetism, atomic theory or the periodic table of the elements, either. None of these are matters of personal preference that is in need of my or anyone else's "support."


People with no grasp of what science and nature are should either educate themselves on science and nature, or stick to their supernatural mythology and take comfort in its remaining viability. Where myth conflicts with reality, reality triumphs. Without exception.
 
Old 01-13-2008, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,712 posts, read 13,460,010 times
Reputation: 4317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
No, I don't.

But then, I do not "support" gravity, electromagnetism, atomic theory or the periodic table of the elements, either. None of these are matters of personal preference that is in need of my or anyone else's "support."


People with no grasp of what science and nature are should either educate themselves on science and nature, or stick to their supernatural mythology and take comfort in its remaining viability. Where myth conflicts with reality, reality triumphs. Without exception.
I like this guy! He speaks my language Welcome to the forum.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:57 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top