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I must say I do find the Hykso intriguing and I'm glad they are taking more archaeological interest. They were able to found their own dynasty during an interregnum (1) and it took campaigns by Kamose and Ahmose I to push them back to Canaan.
Tha Ahmose 'tempest' stele (sometimes trotted out as recording the Biblical plagues inflicted on Pharaoh in fact grumbles about the destruction of Temples under the Hyksos and their restoration by Ahmose.
There was a series of you -tubes posted here on the conquest and it was an eye -opener. While more work needs to be done, it suggests that the hebrews came down from the hills when the usual markets of canaan vanished (during a time of upheaval I had noted - a sort of meditteranean dark ages at the end of the new kingdom, the disappearance of Hatti, the canaanite statelets and the appearance of the Sea - peoples and the settlement of Philistia on the coast, some time before Israel grew and came into conflict with it. it answered a puzzling thing I'd noted - the Biblical dislike of cities and the idea that goat -herding was the only proper way to live.
I would like to re- post them with thanks to the bod who did so. maybe i have the addies somewhere.
(1) they eventually conquered the Souther 'theban' native Egyptian dynasty after the Hyksos ruler complained that he was being kept awake at night by the Hippopotami in the Nile. They could beat the Egyptians because they had chariots and the Egyptians didn't and after the New Kingdom, chariots became a feature of the Egyptian army.
Was it called Joshua and Conquest of Canaan? If it was then there is only a link to part 6 of the series. I imagine the rest were removed for copyright reasons. But that's pretty much similar to what Israel Finklestein proposes as what happened. That the early Israelites were pastoral nomads during the time of the city states, and forced to settle down once the trade networks dried up.
Thank you. I'm not certain that was the series that was posted here, but it covers the same ground and is required watching for anyone who thinks the Conquest, Exodus, or anything in the OT can be taken as reliable fact.
Thank you. I'm not certain that was the series that was posted here, but it covers the same ground and is required watching for anyone who thinks the Conquest, Exodus, or anything in the OT can be taken as reliable fact.
My Work is to do the same for the NT.
Oh you old spoilsport you! Imagine... dashing the multitude of Christian devotees' innocent faith stories right before their very eyes and brains!
Why not let them just sit there and philosophically and intellectually dissociate?
(NOTE: some very secretly captured images from the inner brain of a Christian when AREQUIPA finally gets through). But then, later in this "capture", note the involuntary post-explosion quivering that is so unavoidable when they realize they have been self-delusional for... for.... decades! BOOMMM!!!!! OMG!!...:
Oh you old spoilsport you! Imagine... dashing the multitude of Christian devotees' innocent faith stories right before their very eyes and brains!
Why not let them just sit there and philosophically and intellectually dissociate?
...)
I used to have the sig on my old Forum 'The truth is important'. That's still why. Of course they might or might not listen or take the evidence on board - I'm waiting to hear what Visio has to say on what has been presented so far - but the presentation of the evidence is our duty, said he with stuffy pontificator's expression.
(pdf document: Print it up, read it tonight and I"ll grill you on it's significant elements tomorrow, OK? You know the process right? Soz you have at least the basics of a topic down in your head. After all, that's what scientists do before they com out and blather on with mindless anti-information commentary such as so-called ed-jhah-kaytuhhd Christians love to do..)
Or do you mean instead, "as it was written in a few scant pages", but missing all the necessary technical supporting info? What about: Food? Water, Shelter? Animal care? Archeological traces of a 40 year event?
All missing, and yet it absolutely DID happen? Because of a grand biblical category you casually label as "narrative", and thus all correct? Boy oh boy... have we got you by the S&Cs: say... do you maybe notice that uncomfy "tugging feeling" in your intellectual nether regions, Viz?
well... s'OK: you can indeed scratch that itch: it's called natural curiosity, and it really won't bit you, despite what your church tells you with their ever-waggling finger of Guilt!
You mean like that, Viz old scholar? soz you end up quivering in your deepest soul-partz? Well... OK then! (Here he goes again! What a faithful guy. God, yah found yourself a real ringer in this one!)
Speaking of answering logical questions, I think it's time I took on The Exodus (hereafter, The big E-vent! or TBEV), to fully disprove it's literal existence, just as any student of logic can so easily dismiss Noah's Fludd-o-Matic event. (Which is at best a totally stupid story if one attempts to take it seriously!)
So.. Here we go (But first we'll set the event's basics & back-story...OK?):
1) The basic story, by Christian apologists: Exodus: Summary
Some of which is nicely summarized by Wiki (don't just dismiss it: it has referencable citations at it's end!):
"The Book of Exodus tells how Moses leads the Israelites out of Egypt and through the wilderness to Mount Sinai, where God reveals himself and offers them a Covenant: they are to keep his torah (i.e. law, instruction), and in return he will be their God and give them the land of Canaan. The Book of Leviticus records the laws of God.
The Book of Numbers tells how the Israelites, led now by their God, journey onwards from Sinai towards Canaan, but when their spies report that the land is filled with giants they refuse to go on. God condemns them to remain in the wilderness until the generation that left Egypt passes away. After thirty-eight years at the oasis of Kadesh Barnea the next generation travel on to the borders of Canaan.
The Book of Deuteronomy tells how, within sight of the Promised Land, Moses recalls their journeys and gives them new laws. His death (the last reported event of the Torah) concludes the 40 years of the exodus from Egypt."
But then, here's some considered rebukes, all quite logical. Here...
(this one even seems to come from a logical Christian website. Of course, for some intellectuals, even those few-odd thinking Christians, logic is still logic...)
(Be forewarned, Vizioet al: your intellectual demise on this one, as with the Greater Noahtic Debacle, is assured. Best you take a Lorazepam and just settle back in defeat lest you suffer Multiple Source Logical Desperation! I'z juss sayin'!!! And...you know of course, as always, my friend, I'm concerned about what's left of your mind!)
Thren, check out the Credibility sub-section. Embarrassing....
Rifle old bud, those links are too long for troo beleevurs to scan through, and there are no pictures Thanks for the links, similar to what I had come across but these are new.
Even from a biblical perspective, which I am more up to speed with, even when the alleged laws were to be given, the narrative is written in such a way to justify the third person style. We have Moses bargaining with god and he is supposed to make an appearance to the the flock. When the motly crew hear of this they are aghast and insist that Moses talk to god and visa versa and from thereon the narrative changes with the "Then the Lord spoke to Moses..." I am sure all christians will know exactly what verses and chapters I am alluding to so I do not need to cite them (or do I )
When it comes to modern christianity, facts like these are of no real consequence. A Sunday school level of scholarship is what most possess and some can recite the 10 commandments partially and of course Leviticus 20:13 is etched in unobtainium and coated in kryptonite (the gay bits)
" Archaeology however disagrees with that argument." Yes the wilderness area has been swarmed over looking for the bones of the millions of animals and of evidence that 2 million or so humans lived there for 40 years and the evidence is just not there.
Also we have a logistical problem of that many people, including the very young and the very old plus all the, goats, sheep and bullocks all known for slow movement. The third in the wilderness, even after the lake was purified, how could all those humans and all those animals get around that small body of water?
Next, if water came out of the rock; how could they have worked out the logistics of seeing that everybody plus animals, could get close enough to drink? Take a tour, via google earth over this wilderness area and see if you can find any place big enough to accommodate 2 million people and several million animals. # 3 has probably got it right.
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Bumbling acrtoss the desert, dehydrated for 40+++ years? Wow! I had no idea!
)
