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Old 09-10-2013, 08:31 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,590,359 times
Reputation: 4537

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovesMountains View Post
Since you continue to be interested in where things are in the Bible, I would like to suggest you get your hands on a good "study Bible".

There are notes throughout a study Bible which explain scripture passages for those who want to better understand what they are reading.

One good study Bible you should look for is the Life Application Study Bible - but there are many good ones out there
Way ahead of you. Two bible versions in English, a foreign language one for comparison and a number of concordances. Plus numerous ancient history courses at university.

So tell me where outside of the bible is there any mention of massive earthquakes and zombies walking in the streets as supposedly happened as described in Matthew?

There is no recording by the Romans, who were excellent record keepers, of this truly out of this world occurrence when the graves opened up and the saints marched out. There's no geological record of any earthquakes in the area at that time.

As Lucy would say, explain Ricky.
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Old 09-10-2013, 08:42 PM
 
44,589 posts, read 29,155,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
So tell me where outside of the bible is there any mention of massive earthquakes and zombies walking in the streets as supposedly happened as described in Matthew?
There is no recording by the Romans, who were excellent record keepers, of this truly out of this world occurrence when the graves opened up and the saints marched out. There's no geological record of any earthquakes in the area at that time.
As Lucy would say, explain Ricky.
What is your problem, cupper? You have been told repeatedly that there is no justification for thinking that what is recorded in the Bible actually happened as described. What else are you looking for? Is your purpose to simply goad and provoke Christians over this literal view of the Bible? What gives? The people on this forum who believe the Bible literally are not thinking or reasoning about it They are emotionally committed to an idea . . . a concept of God . . . that is immune to rationality and logic. It is called unreasoning credulity. What is your point in harassing them? There is nothing to be gained from it.
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Old 09-10-2013, 10:00 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,590,359 times
Reputation: 4537
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
What is your problem, cupper? You have been told repeatedly that there is no justification for thinking that what is recorded in the Bible actually happened as described. What else are you looking for? Is your purpose to simply goad and provoke Christians over this literal view of the Bible? What gives? The people on this forum who believe the Bible literally are not thinking or reasoning about it They are emotionally committed to an idea . . . a concept of God . . . that is immune to rationality and logic. It is called unreasoning credulity. What is your point in harassing them? There is nothing to be gained from it.
You're actually the first one who said not to take Bible literally. I actually agree with that. What I wonder though is where the picking and choosing interpretation happens.

Those that choose to use the Bible as a spiritual guide and to use it and interpreted it allegorically and metaphorically to me have a much better chance of getting real spiritual value out of their beliefs.

I do find it interesting that those that view the Bible as being a literal piece of history never do answer the hard questions do they?

No one will answer why there's no geological record of earthquakes when jesus died nor is there any indication outside the bible of zombies walking streets.

The literal lists either refuse or cannot answer this.
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Old 09-10-2013, 10:01 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,590,359 times
Reputation: 4537
By the way asking hard questions is not goading.
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Old 09-10-2013, 10:49 PM
 
222 posts, read 415,307 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
Way ahead of you. Two bible versions in English, a foreign language one for comparison and a number of concordances. Plus numerous ancient history courses at university.

So tell me where outside of the bible is there any mention of massive earthquakes and zombies walking in the streets as supposedly happened as described in Matthew?

There is no recording by the Romans, who were excellent record keepers, of this truly out of this world occurrence when the graves opened up and the saints marched out. There's no geological record of any earthquakes in the area at that time.

As Lucy would say, explain Ricky.
About the events presented in Matthew 27:52-53
1. Zombies. Who said the risen were zombies? Zombies are from Haitian Voodoo. There is no evidence Haitians visited the Middle East, nor of coup-padre nor of them having been buried alive. I've seen this Zombie connection on several bogus websites but not in any concordance, Bible, or commentary.

2. Roman Record Keeping. Rome was one of the most bureaucratic civilizations in history. The Romans kept records about every detail of life—births, marriages, adoptions, taxes, olive production, and legal documents. Along with the Roman legions, the official government records were a means to control the lands and peoples they conquered. So why is there a total absence of official Roman records concerning Jesus? At the very least, should not there be a record of the trial and the crucifixion? All the historical references to Jesus are all many decades later.
The foregoing is a prime example of how skeptics speak off the top of their heads, with no earthly idea as to the actual facts. The implication is that sufficient data relating to Christ are unavailable. This argument is folly. There are no surviving records of any of the things noted above. If you believe otherwise show me the Roman birth records from 5 B.C.. The olive production from 12 B.C..etc..

3. Earthquakes. Just last year a study was released dating Jesus' crucifixion date as possibly 4-3-33, based on, guess what...........earthquake evidence. This earthquake would have been powerful enough to break apart the sediments of Ein Gedi. Plus, they are investigating the sky darkening from noon-3 pm and the dust deposited by the earthquake.

In a lot of areas, genetics, archaeology, geology man is learning more that proves The Bible. God has revealed to us the tools needed so that the scales are falling from our eyes faster than ever.
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Old 09-11-2013, 04:16 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
46,521 posts, read 13,773,712 times
Reputation: 5624
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
By the way asking hard questions is not goading.
You are actually dealing with the only rationale that Christianity has - the Bible. It has only ever been and will only ever be a case of whether the Bible can be believed.

If it can't then all the religions of the book are without foundation. Job Done. All the rest is talking about personal feelings, the linking of which with an old book is delusionary.

The problems with and failings of the Bible under examination are so huge that it is now very hard to justify belief in it without a string of logical fallacies.

Don't worry about people protesting about you saying so. Though they may not realize it themselves, all they are doing is a kneejerk faith reaction to religion debunking which manifests in finding all sorts of fair -sounding cloaks for 'We wish you would shut up, go away, and leave us to our faith delusions'.

We have seen so much of it that we understand these people very well. Many of us have been there, done that and carry the T-scars.

Keep on the good work.
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Old 09-11-2013, 06:41 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,309 posts, read 9,780,752 times
Reputation: 6206
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
Though they may not realize it themselves, all they are doing is a kneejerk faith reaction to religion debunking which manifests in finding all sorts of fair -sounding cloaks for 'We wish you would shut up, go away, and leave us to our faith delusions'.
Indeed. Being in these fora for some time now has made me realize that theism does not deserve (and never has deserved) the aura of dignity and humble sincerity that it has ever strived so hard to cloak itself in. It does not actually fit its own self-styled role as the preserver of moral order and preventer of societal chaos, the arbiter of ultimate truth, and the protector of the downtrodden. It is an indefensible and harmful delusion. And it's ridiculous (= worthy of ridicule).

Ironically, theists here have moved me away from sympathy and towards a more hard line approach. Theists for the most part demonize and dehumanize and otherize unbelievers, and demonstrate over and over their lack of willingness to engage logic and reality, so what do we have to gain by coddling them? Shock therapy will at least force a few theists who have already taken themselves partway down the path of healthy skepticism, to think what for them is the unthinkable.

Heck, my whole life story has been one of gradually becoming what I once despised as a theist, I might as well take it to its logical conclusion.
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Old 09-11-2013, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,612 posts, read 4,316,932 times
Reputation: 1406
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
Many of us have been there, done that and carry the T-scars.
I have never been religious so I don't have any T-scars, and maybe that is why Theists don't bother me as much as they do some people.

However, when they start trying to control my behavior and expecting me to "respect" their religion, I am not as agreeable. For example, in the Judaism forum the moderator asked us to not write a post during Shabbos, the Jewish holy day each week. I thought that was very silly and I do not adhere to his request.

When I was in high school, we used to do a daily bible reading, and I would do it like most of the kids. If I was there now, I would refuse to do it or I would read a passage that was somewhat shocking, like the one about the lady who lusted after men with large 'appendages' who had emissions like horses.
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Old 09-11-2013, 09:06 AM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,590,359 times
Reputation: 4537
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonpostal View Post
About the events presented in Matthew 27:52-53
1. Zombies. Who said the risen were zombies? Zombies are from Haitian Voodoo. There is no evidence Haitians visited the Middle East, nor of coup-padre nor of them having been buried alive. I've seen this Zombie connection on several bogus websites but not in any concordance, Bible, or commentary.
What would you call dead people getting up on their graves and start walking around? It clearly is stated in Matthew and yet there's no contemporary recording of this happening. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Quote:
2. Roman Record Keeping. Rome was one of the most bureaucratic civilizations in history. The Romans kept records about every detail of life—births, marriages, adoptions, taxes, olive production, and legal documents. Along with the Roman legions, the official government records were a means to control the lands and peoples they conquered. So why is there a total absence of official Roman records concerning Jesus? At the very least, should not there be a record of the trial and the crucifixion? All the historical references to Jesus are all many decades later.
The foregoing is a prime example of how skeptics speak off the top of their heads, with no earthly idea as to the actual facts. The implication is that sufficient data relating to Christ are unavailable. This argument is folly. There are no surviving records of any of the things noted above. If you believe otherwise show me the Roman birth records from 5 B.C.. The olive production from 12 B.C..etc..
Again such an extraordinary event that described in the bible around the crucifixcation of christ would certainly have been recorded. I mean it was a trial was there not?

Quote:
3. Earthquakes. Just last year a study was released dating Jesus' crucifixion date as possibly 4-3-33, based on, guess what...........earthquake evidence. This earthquake would have been powerful enough to break apart the sediments of Ein Gedi. Plus, they are investigating the sky darkening from noon-3 pm and the dust deposited by the earthquake.

In a lot of areas, genetics, archaeology, geology man is learning more that proves The Bible. God has revealed to us the tools needed so that the scales are falling from our eyes faster than ever.
Please provide links to wear these studies have been documented in peer reviewed literature.
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Old 09-11-2013, 09:09 AM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,590,359 times
Reputation: 4537
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
You are actually dealing with the only rationale that Christianity has - the Bible. It has only ever been and will only ever be a case of whether the Bible can be believed.

If it can't then all the religions of the book are without foundation. Job Done. All the rest is talking about personal feelings, the linking of which with an old book is delusionary.

The problems with and failings of the Bible under examination are so huge that it is now very hard to justify belief in it without a string of logical fallacies.

Don't worry about people protesting about you saying so. Though they may not realize it themselves, all they are doing is a kneejerk faith reaction to religion debunking which manifests in finding all sorts of fair -sounding cloaks for 'We wish you would shut up, go away, and leave us to our faith delusions'.

We have seen so much of it that we understand these people very well. Many of us have been there, done that and carry the T-scars.

Keep on the good work.
It reminds me of a discussion I had with the priest once when I went to school. The basis of my premise was that either Jesus was a bastard or Mary committed adultery. We talked about it for almost an hour and in the end he just said that was needed was to have faith to believe.

And that is what religion boils down to. Faith not proof.
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