Non Divine Creator (Christ, body, Universe, about)

[Nozzferrahhtoo]

Originally Posted by Grandstander

Then we are left wondering why you felt it necessary to include that business.

I included nothing of the sort. Perhaps english is not your first language and something in the translation has caused you to take offence where none was intended or implied. You went off on one for little or no reason and I am trying to stick to the topic. I will not apologize for something I have not done. Back to the topic, where I intend to stay....

Originally Posted by Grandstander

one ramification of that would be the recognition of how incredibly puny and unimportant we are in terms of the larger cosmological picture.

Indeed but I do not think we need to postulate anything on insufficient evidence in order to come to the same conclusion. Postulating a creator, or infinite regress of creators, is at best superfluous. We are pretty insignificant in cosmological terms regardless of there being any creator entity or not.

I guess one of the motivations some people have for inventing gods is to overcome the feelings that insignificance racks them with. By imagining that the entire universe was created with us in mine we move instantly from being one of the least significant things in it to being the sole purpose of it all.

I see no reason for this personally. "Importance" or "Significance" is a subjective nonsense and as such the very fact we exist with the possibility of having and expressing that subjectivity is enough in my mind to feed any need we have for feeling relevant or significant or special.

[old_cold]

" In the beginning" makes no sense if there was an entity (god) that did some creating.
If said entity existed, then it stands to reason that this 'beginning' was not, in fact, the beginning.
Must be some simple facts got left out of the Bible, huh?
If god always existed ,you know, before the beginning it must be a linguistic problem here to have something before a first thing (or just a Christian one)

[Cruithne]

Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo

Postulating a creator, or infinite regress of creators, is at best superfluous.

I'm sure you have all heard this story, but I thought I'd throw it in here for interest and for those who may not have heard it:

A well-known scientist once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the center of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy. At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: "What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise." The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, "What is the tortoise standing on?" "You're very clever, young man, very clever," said the old lady. "But it's turtles all the way down!"

Stephen Hawking. Introduction to "A Brief History of Time".

[mythunderstood]

Why would a creator have to be eternal? Couldn't a "creator" of sorts start the beginnings of the universe and then explode into fine dust, destroy itself, (or some such scenario)?

[Grandstander]

Originally Posted by mythunderstood

Why would a creator have to be eternal? Couldn't a "creator" of sorts start the beginnings of the universe and then explode into fine dust, destroy itself, (or some such scenario)?

Seems an interesting possibility.. Pyrrhic Creation. If we can get this concept into the popular discussion, then in no time at all there will be competing schools of thought, one which insists that the creator knew it advance that the act of creation would result in self destruction, and sacrificed itself so that we all may be, and one which argues that the creator had a reasonable plan for the universe, did not know that the act of creation would result in self destruction, and consequently the universe is adrift in a rudderless chaotic state, absent the control tower which was meant to helm it along.

[Nozzferrahhtoo]

Originally Posted by mythunderstood

Why would a creator have to be eternal? Couldn't a "creator" of sorts start the beginnings of the universe and then explode into fine dust, destroy itself, (or some such scenario)?

Indeed and there is also the possibility that such a creator has or had no idea we even existed.

Take for example the scientists currently working at CERN. They bring singularities into existence and the like.

Now imagine a similar scientist who creates a singularity on their desktop for what is, to that scientist, a split second. However within it an entire universe expands and fades, civilizations rise and fall, all postulating as to their origin and purpose etc etc.

All worshiping a creator who in actual fact has no idea whatsoever that his creation contained life.

Hell even the people who first created things like Yoghurt likely had no idea of the bacterial life inside it that drove it's creation.

Of course while fun to postulate the above one has to remember:

1) There is nothing on offer suggesting this is the explanation for our universe.
2) Such an explanation even if true still falls into the infinite regress issue.

[weltschmerz]

Originally Posted by Cruithne

I'm sure you have all heard this story, but I thought I'd throw it in here for interest and for those who may not have heard it:

Heh. Look at my status.

[Cruithne]

Originally Posted by weltschmerz

Heh. Look at my status.

Hmm. That's odd. I don't see your status under your name. I can see it if I go to your profile 'About me' section.
I wonder if its to do with my settings or yours?

Can anybody else see 'its turtles all the way down' on weltschmerz status?
Can anybody see my status too out of interest?

[Cruithne]

When you go to 'Settings' then 'edit options', then 'thread display options' then 'user status status settings' do you have this set to 'friends only'?

[TroutDude]

I see yours, Cruithne but not weltschmerz's.