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Old 12-10-2007, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Just a few miles outside of St. Louis
1,921 posts, read 3,914,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mams1559 View Post
I'm a Christian. I do not wish to line the pocket of this author, so I will not be seeing the movie. However, what I probably will do is check his books out of the library and read them. I even may read them with my children (13 & 12). Why? Why would a Christian read such obviously anti-religious garbage?

Easy, to refute such anti-religious garbage. How can I give sound and reasonable responses to something I haven't read myself? I may make it a bible study lesson for my whole family so that we can be prepared to respond to those who question our faith. We know what we believe and why and reading these books won't change that. If anything, I'll point out why the author's underlying worldviews are wrong when compared with the word of God.
For whatever it's worth, I commend you, Mams. I think it's great that you are at least willing to read it for yourself, rather than taking everyone else's word for it. You may well find that it clashes with your beliefs, but at least you couldn't be accused of not having any first-hand knowledge of the book. I am reading it now, and I'm about half-way through it. So far, it seems that he definitely has a beef with the Catholic Church, (there was also a one-line mention of Zoarastism, or however it's spelled), though I can't remember the word, "Catholic", itself being in the story. But, the implication is clear. Catholic church history, as a whole, has not always been great. And, being the first Christian kid on the block, so to speak, they have a longer blood-filled history. Of course, to be fair, the Protestant history hasn't been too swift, either. Both have been full of blood and wrong-doings, which would fill volumes!

I have not finished the book, but I get the feeling that what Philip Pullman really dislikes is organized religion, more than anything. However, I can't make out if he is an atheist, or an agnostic. I have read on his website, where he simply says that no one can prove there is a God, and he just does not know. Other interviews I've read seem to indicate that he is more atheistic than agnostic.

As I read the story, I can say that I probably would not let a younger child read it, or read it to them, (not just for the religious context, as such, but there is violence, etc., that would not be suitable for little ones), but I wouldn't have a problem with a pre-teen or teen, reading the story. After all, kids are, or will be, exposed to different ideas as they get older, due to television, movies, music, the internet, books, etc. In fact, I think they should be. Personally, I'm of the mind, that if a book or movie is going to make me change my mind about what I believe, then I must have not believed it too strongly in the first place.
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Old 12-10-2007, 09:47 AM
 
7,768 posts, read 9,716,589 times
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I know somewhere there was a post by someone who said they were thinking of going to see the Chronicles of Narnia until they heard about the Christian themes in it and then stated there's no way they'd go see it.

I know many people who said they wouldn't go to a movie that was veiled proselytizing.

Isn't this the same thing?

Sure everyone's entitled to see or not see what they choose, but for those that belittle the people who opt out of this one, do you criticize those who 'steer clear' of a Christian themed movie as well?

<I'd like to add that I know many atheists who saw Narnia and, for that matter, Passion of the Christ. I'm just making this post to see if you'd criticize someone for avoiding a Christian themed movie or is the 'ridiculous-ness' of this argument only one-sided>
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Old 12-10-2007, 10:28 AM
 
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Gosh, I'd never heard of anyone refusing to see Chronicles of Narnia because of Christian themes. That's just ridiculous to me, but to each his own, I guess.
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Old 12-10-2007, 10:30 AM
 
7,768 posts, read 9,716,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buildings_and_bridges View Post
Gosh, I'd never heard of anyone refusing to see Chronicles of Narnia because of Christian themes. That's just ridiculous to me, but to each his own, I guess.
It was here somewhere. I haven't tried to search it out, but I do remember reading it in a post here somewhere.
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Old 12-10-2007, 10:42 AM
 
2,955 posts, read 4,999,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
It was here somewhere. I haven't tried to search it out, but I do remember reading it in a post here somewhere.
I don't think I said that I would refuse to see Chronicles, but I did say that the Christian overtones (that are supposedly evident in the movie) bothered me and made me want to see it less.

I still probably would have seen it in the theater, but negative reviews (coupled with the Christianity) kept me away.

I will still see Chronicles on my small screen at some point, though. I loved the books too much as a child to actually boycott it.

However, if somebody did refuse to see Chronicles based on C.S. Lewis's Christian message, then it would be exactly the same as boycotting The Golden Compass based on the views of Philip Pullman.

I agree with buildings_and_bridges who stated that such a refusal is ridiculous.
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Old 12-10-2007, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Maine
8,514 posts, read 11,210,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b. frank View Post
I don't think I said that I would refuse to see Chronicles, but I did say that the Christian overtones (that are supposedly evident in the movie) bothered me and made me want to see it less.

I still probably would have seen it in the theater, but negative reviews (coupled with the Christianity) kept me away.

I will still see Chronicles on my small screen at some point, though. I loved the books too much as a child to actually boycott it.
I don't understand how you could love the books but object to the movies. The books are FAR more overt in their Christian allegory.

In fact, J.R.R. Tolkien, a devout Christian himself, didn't much care for the Chronicles of Narnia, not because they were "too Christian" but because they were "too allegorical." The last volume especially, where Lewis really pounds you over the head with the allegory.
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Old 12-10-2007, 12:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
I don't understand how you could love the books but object to the movies. The books are FAR more overt in their Christian allegory.
The thing is that I loved those books as a child - and I had no idea there was anything Christian about them (not that it would have bothered me). As a kid, these books were just fantasy books. I didn't even learn that Lewis was a Christian until later in my life. Even then, I had no idea there were "Christian undertones" in these books until the movie came out and people raised the issue. Also, I don't think I ever made it through to the final volume. I seem to remember getting really bored during the 4th or 5th book.

So I objected to the Christian tone of the movie, mostly because I didn't want to see the books that I had great memories of reduced to ammunition in the US culture war. For me, the debate over such things kind of ruined the release of the Chronicles movie, just like the GC movie is being spoiled a little by all of this.
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Old 12-10-2007, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b. frank View Post
So I objected to the Christian tone of the movie, mostly because I didn't want to see the books that I had great memories of reduced to ammunition in the US culture war.
I don't understand how you could object to "the Christian tone of the movie." If anything, the movie toned down a lot of the Christian tone. Did you honestly expect the filmmakers to remove an element so inherent to the core of the book?

Or was it all the talking heads' yammering over the movie to which you objected?

I'm really not trying to be contentious. I just don't understand.
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Old 12-10-2007, 12:59 PM
 
2,955 posts, read 4,999,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
I don't understand how you could object to "the Christian tone of the movie." If anything, the movie toned down a lot of the Christian tone. Did you honestly expect the filmmakers to remove an element so inherent to the core of the book?

Or was it all the talking heads' yammering over the movie to which you objected?

I'm really not trying to be contentious. I just don't understand.
It was the yammering heads that I objected to mostly.
Although, on this particular issue, I (philosophically) agree with those same heads because I am not a Christian.
But if the book had a Christian tone that was integral to the story, then I don't expect filmmakers to ignore it.
Mostly, though, I didn't like the religious beliefs of the author to be made out to be the central point of the movie (just like the yammerers are now wrongly doing to GC).
Please note: if I had not read bad reviews of Chronicles (that had little if anything to say about religion) then I would have definitely been in the theater for it. I still intend to see it - not to judge the level of Christian messages in it - but just because I want to. Regarding secular theatrical films, I just don't care about their part in the culture war in the US.
Boycotters should boycott whatever they want, but I tend not to boycott films that were made by people who I disagree with on issues other than just filmmaking.
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Old 12-10-2007, 01:42 PM
 
7,768 posts, read 9,716,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b. frank View Post
I don't think I said that I would refuse to see Chronicles, but I did say that the Christian overtones (that are supposedly evident in the movie) bothered me and made me want to see it less.

I still probably would have seen it in the theater, but negative reviews (coupled with the Christianity) kept me away.

I will still see Chronicles on my small screen at some point, though. I loved the books too much as a child to actually boycott it.

However, if somebody did refuse to see Chronicles based on C.S. Lewis's Christian message, then it would be exactly the same as boycotting The Golden Compass based on the views of Philip Pullman.

I agree with buildings_and_bridges who stated that such a refusal is ridiculous.
It might have been you I was thinking of b. frank, I honestly can't remember. But I did remember it coming up. Thanks for the insight.
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