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This response ^^^ by sans had shades of one of my all time favorite members of this board--Rafius.
I miss that guys supersnark posts...a true genius: Snark God!!
Thus, on that basis...this post by sanspeur is great.
Wow, so Rafius is a God? Which means he is all matter/energy that exists or has ever existed, because you wouldn't use less than the "full and complete definition" of a word, right?
You should try to explain to Vizio that he needs to worship Rafius... I would pop some popcorn for that...
I would retitle this thread: "Fundamentalism and Intelligent Thought are Diametrically opposed and opposite... and never the twain shall meet"...
This is the best comment in this thread, and it applies equally to religious fundamentalism and liberal/secular/athiest fundamentalism.
I would say that Evolution and modern secular liberal values are diametrically opposed. Evolution is most compatible with the values of the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament).
Wow, so Rafius is a God? Which means he is all matter/energy that exists or has ever existed, because you wouldn't use less than the "full and complete definition" of a word, right?
You should try to explain to Vizio that he needs to worship Rafius... I would pop some popcorn for that...
-NoCapo
FINALLY! I've drawn some snark out of you guys.
It's raw, and needs some work...but I have a good feeling it just might have some potential.
Ahhhhhhhh! Makes it all worthwhile. Thanx Brothers!
NAWH - Creation and evolution and adaptation are the same thing. Why is there such a passion in people to believe that there is no creation...that it is one huge spontaneous accidental event? What is this great need to discount the possibility of intelligence in the universe other than our selves?
Eternity is a very very very long time...Scripture states and to para phrase....To God a million years is but a second and a second a million years....Creation put in human terms to assist in the primitive understanding of creation is describes as days...They are not days...or they may be God days...creation may have taken place in an instant which is in God time...perhaps 50 million years as we know it...
It is all about time...to literally believe that everything was created in 6 human days is silly...those days were GOD days...and they are huge....I surmise that creation took place over an eon of time as we know it....or at the same time in less than a nano second....
Evolution and creation are the same damned thing and I wish people would use their minds and use that clue to understand - Time is either instant and non existent or it is eternally long without end. So I believe in GOD....I believe in creation - I believe in evolution ....because I took the time...to investigate without prejudice.
To take a break from trading snark with GldnRule, and actually adress the topic for a minute...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelee81
1) Creation (By Man DEATH comes into the World)
2) Evolution (By death MAN comes into the World)
They are two opposite world views entirely... one says we are devolving and need redemption through God's anointed Messiah Jesus for Salvation. The other says we are evolving and eventually will become perfect or "gods".
There are really only two religions in the World. One is truth and one is false. The Serpent said to Eve that in eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil their eyes would be opened and that they would be gods. The result... death.
I think a major difficulty in communication is related to this. You are trying to evaluate evolution theologically, and are assuming that people believe in biological evolution because of some theological need.
I and most other folks who hold an evolutionary view, theist or not, are approaching this from an evidence standpoint. Biological evolution is a sound scientific theory. It has tremendous explanatory power, we can use it to make useful predictions not only about historical evidence, but about ongoing evolution and adaptation. We have seen a form of speciation in the laboratory, and can examine the effectiveness of the underlying mathematics through genetic algorithms (a form of optimization problem based on biological evolution).
To reject that mountain of evidence simply for theological reasons is baffling for many people. Some of us, because we don't believe at all, others because they cannot believe that God would orchestrate a world that is built around a deception. If God exists, and created the world, then either he put it together to deceive, or some specific religious groups have misunderstood or misinterpreted whatever messages He gave. I can understand how someone could come to the conclusion that is a detailed direct examination of God's creation contradicts a document written by men, copied, translated, paraphrased, edited, and interpreted over centuries, maybe it the is part that man had a part in that is more likely to be misunderstood.
To be clear, biological evolution in not incompatible with theism in general or Christianity specifically. It may be incompatible with specific interpretations of different religions and their writings, but there is no unavoidable, inherent conflict.
...snip.... To be clear, biological evolution in not incompatible with theism in general or Christianity specifically. It may be incompatible with specific interpretations of different religions and their writings, but there is no unavoidable, inherent conflict.
-NoCapo
(Bolding mine.)
Excellent point that all-too many theists don't appear to understand.
NAWH - Creation and evolution and adaptation are the same thing. Why is there such a passion in people to believe that there is no creation...that it is one huge spontaneous accidental event? What is this great need to discount the possibility of intelligence in the universe other than our selves?
That would be fine if creationist were satisfied with proffering the possibility of some extraordinary super being{ESB) who set in motion the forces of the universe despite the fact that there is no evidence for such a being, however, the proffer falls apart when the this extraordinary super being is the one offered in the Abrahamic narratives. On one hand we are asked to believe that this ESB set forth the creation of the infinite vastness of the universe yet has the time or more importantly, the interest to personally oversee the development of a single species on a small unimportant planet, on the edge of its own galaxy which itself is just one of billions floating in the vastness of space.
As an atheist, I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of some Q like species who created the universe (perhaps a physics experiment that got out of hand) but if you put together a list of all the possible causes, it would be on the list, just not at the top. As for discounting the possibility of intelligence in the universe, anyone with the eyes to see, and certainly no atheist, would be so arrogant to believe that humans are the end all be all when it comes to intelligent beings, evolution itself would make that a fools notion.
Creation and Evolution are diametrically opposed and opposite of one another
No it's not.
Evolution is one of Gods' "creative processes".
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur
Why do you say that as if it is a fact? That is dishonest, as you cannot know that....Myths are not facts and cannot be proven.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule
Well, as I've said before...it's all "belief", and "faith" that the information we have has validity and merit.
So...it is a much a "fact" as it can be, that "The Universe" (or "Nature", "All That Exists", etc) is definitively "God"...as per the experts at defining words/terms. Evolution is one of the "Creative Processes" of "The Universe"...thus, Evolution is one of the "Creative Processes" of "God".
I've got the exact same evidence for my info you've got for yours Dude.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC
I have no idea what you're talking about. You'll have to be more specific if you have a point to make.
The evidence for "God" is the same evidence that is used to identify and explain the euphemisms used for God- "Universe", "Nature", etc.
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