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Jesus refers to Satan as the father of lies, and revelation emphasizes the issue all liars will go to Hell.
Islam teaches that it is perfectly OK to lie, especially to an infidel .
Do words have meaning? Can I call myself a Muslim if I think Muhammed was a false prophet? Or are there basic required beliefs?
The Trinity was declared an essential belief about 1800 years ago. The Sebellian Heresy, or Modalism was declared heretical. To not believe in a Trinitarian God would mean that all of Christendom considers such a person to be outside of the faith.
So...yes---all Christians believe in the Trinity. The ones that don't are no more "Christian" than the Pope is Baptist.
Harrier can find no verse in the Bible that states that one has to believe in a Triune God in order to be a Christian.
Were the people to whom Jesus said "your faith has made you well" aware that Jesus in the flesh was only 1/3 of God?
No.
Did Jesus tell his first twelve disciples to go and tell every one that they must acknowledge that God is One in Three Persons?
No.
He told them to "go forth and make disciples of all nations".
Did Jesus tell the woman at the well to believe in the trinity?
No.
He told her to "go and sin no more".
The Trinity is a reality, evident through various words spoken by Jesus, however belief in it is not necessary for salvation, and the heresy that you cited is man-made.
the story of jesus trial and crucifixion violates several Jewish laws regarding trials. Jewish laws states that trials should not be held on the eve and during high holidays like passover. there is no passover costum of releasing a prisoner during passover. trials should not be held during the midnight hours only in the day time. also a prisoner on trial should not be beaten up even if he is sentenced to death.
Jesus was put on trial because the Jewish priests didn't like his criticism of their interpretation of Mosaic law and because his ministry represented a threat to their cozy relationship with the Roman governor.
They brought baseless charges of treason, of which even Pilate could see that Jesus was innocent.
Pilate acted in the interest of preserving his position by ceding to the priests call for blood, because the last thing a Roman governor wanted to do was cause a riot.
You seem to not realize that the priests were corrupt and that Rome, while tolerating Jewish custom, was going to implement its own law.
The Trinity is a reality, evident through various words spoken by Jesus, however belief in it is not necessary for salvation, and the heresy that you cited is man-made.
Christian fundamentalists generally subscribe to the "seven fundamentals" of which the Trinity is one:
1. The Virgin Birth of Jesus Christ
2. The Sinless Life of Christ
3. The Atoning Death of Christ
4. The Resurrection of Christ
5. The Visible Return of Christ
6. The Verbal and Plenary Inspiration (inerrancy) of the Bible
7. The Trinity
Superficially it seems like the Trinity is an odd inclusion, but I suspect that it is to bolster the divinity of Jesus -- that he was both "fully god and fully man". The efficacy of his "sacrifice" lies in that he was fully man and yet supposedly led a sinless life -- if he were anything but a sinless man his death would have had no power to redeem sinners.
It's odd to me, though, that the above standard list doesn't directly include the divinity of Christ rather than tossing in the doctrine of the Trinity. It certainly isn't consistent with the goal of having a concise catechism for teaching the faith. And just from a pragmatic viewpoint, it works against fundamentalism having any kind of inclusive impulse within itself. No surprise there, of course; fundamentalism by its very nature is exclusionary.
The "seven fundamentals" have in the past couple of generations been barnacled with a lot of other exclusionary stuff. Most fundamentalists will not accept you as a brother if you are not a premillenialist, for instance. Eschatology (doctrine of the end times) is a big deal as a litmus test of orthodoxy in many circles. Another biggie is that you must unconditionally reject abortion. The actual "fundamentals of the faith" is probably twenty items long these days, it's just that the last ten or so vary somewhat from subgroup to subgroup.
The Trinity was declared an essential belief about 1800 years ago. The Sebellian Heresy, or Modalism was declared heretical. To not believe in a Trinitarian God would mean that all of Christendom considers such a person to be outside of the faith.
Ya gotta love it. A group of men, convened at the insistence of a pagan emperor, gets together and argues for a few weeks about the nature of God. The pagan emperor doesn't give a damn how the whole thing turns out. He just wants unity in his empire. The head of the Church at that time (the Pope) isn't even in attendance. Apparently it wasn't a big enough issue for him personally to have even bothered to convene the council himself. Ultimately there's a vote. A vote for crying out loud! God's nature was decided by a VOTE! The winners are all happy as winners always are. The losers are given the choice of going along with the winners, being exiled, or worse. No room for dissent here! And since then, this "declaration" has just been mindlessly accepted by all of the "real" Christians. Interestingly, God himself didn't even get a vote. Seriously...
Quote:
So...yes---all Christians believe in the Trinity. The ones that don't are no more "Christian" than the Pope is Baptist.
Give it up, Vizio. You don't have any more right to say I'm not a Christian than I have to say you're not.
I didnt say that three big religions dont have their differences, but they still do pray to the same God.
You are absolutely right. And not only do they pray to the same God, that same God hears and answers their prayers. If a Christian woman, a Jewish woman and a Muslim woman all pray for a critically ill child and all three children are healed, it's not because God heard and answered the prayers of one of them and the others "just happened to get better."
(And before one of the forum's more rabid atheists jumps in to say that there isn't a God at all, so no one heard anyone's prayers, don't do it; it would be derailing the thread. The OP stated, "We all believe in the same GOD." She started the thread with the assumption that a belief in God is a given.)
Ya gotta love it. A group of men, convened at the insistence of a pagan emperor, gets together and argues for a few weeks about the nature of God. The pagan emperor doesn't give a damn how the whole thing turns out. He just wants unity in his empire. The head of the Church at that time (the Pope) isn't even in attendance. Apparently it wasn't a big enough issue for him personally to have even bothered to convene the council himself. Ultimately there's a vote. A vote for crying out loud! God's nature was decided by a VOTE! The winners are all happy as winners always are. The losers are given the choice of going along with the winners, being exiled, or worse. No room for dissent here! And since then, this "declaration" has just been mindlessly accepted by all of the "real" Christians. Interestingly, God himself didn't even get a vote. Seriously...
Give it up, Vizio. You don't have any more right to say I'm not a Christian than I have to say you're not.
Got any amount of actual scholarly proof to back up your accusations or are you just blowing smoke?
Fact is, the Trinity has been believed for 2000 years, and the heresy of modalism was defeated about 1800 years ago.
As for you? Give it up, Katzpur...your religion's founder declared my religion (Christianity) was apostate and God sent him to start a new one. Why would you now WANT to be associated with us?
Harrier can find no verse in the Bible that states that one has to believe in a Triune God in order to be a Christian.
Were the people to whom Jesus said "your faith has made you well" aware that Jesus in the flesh was only 1/3 of God?
No.
Did Jesus tell his first twelve disciples to go and tell every one that they must acknowledge that God is One in Three Persons?
No.
He told them to "go forth and make disciples of all nations".
Did Jesus tell the woman at the well to believe in the trinity?
No.
He told her to "go and sin no more".
The Trinity is a reality, evident through various words spoken by Jesus, however belief in it is not necessary for salvation, and the heresy that you cited is man-made.
Jesus claimed to be God. Not just "ad god"...but God. He can't be God if there is no Trinity.
Jesus claimed to be God. Not just "a god"...but God. He can't be God if there is no Trinity.
He could be god without a Trinity if you're of the Jesus Only persuasion. As I understand that group, there is no god that father or god the holy spirit. Problem solved.
Or you could say that God the father transformed himself into Jesus and then perhaps back into his original form.
Yes, I'm just making that up ... same as all doctrine is made up. Point is, there's lots of ways to skin the doctrinal cat.
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