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Some Christians claim that God gave people free will...
But is that really so?
No.
Well, not if you believe in a benevolent, omniscient god anyway.
If god is omniscient, god would have known--even before creation--that billions and billions of souls would be consigned to Hell for eternal torment (utilizing the Judeo-Christian mythology here.)
If god is omniscient, god would have known--even before creation--that Adam and Eve would fall to temptation in the Garden of Eden, covering all humankind in sin, resulting in the endless torture for countless souls.
An omniscient god would KNOW--before each of us was ever born--who would end up in Paradise and who would be damned forever.
Can anyone make the ridiculous claim that an actual omniscient (all-knowing) god could be SURPRISED at the actions of Adam and Eve or of some individual?
If so, then that god is in no way omniscient.
If god IS omniscient, then god must be happy and satisfied that billions of his creatures will suffer forever.
If this is the case, god certainly isn't loving and benevolent.
If someone has told you: tomorrow at 3 pm the spaceship will land. You have to get your family and run and hide in such and such a place.
Most likely you wouldn't be able to believe that this is true. So for you, this is not a threat. This is a myth. Someone's delusion.
So you wouldn't even have to choose. You would just ignore their warning and go your way.
Most people who ignore hell pretty much don't believe it. It's not a treat to them. They are not making a choice. They are simply ignoring the whole thing altogether.
In order to make a choice, you have to believe that the treat is actually real.
Those who believe in God, but are not afraid of him, they are not really believing that he would hurt them. Because it's illogical to perceive a real treat and not to be afraid of it. Unless...there is something wrong with your brain and you don't think logically.... But then, if your brain is out of order, it's not a choice for you either...
Point confirmed. No one is forced to believe. One makes the choice. If there were no freewill people would be unable to ignore "the whole thing altogether".
Plenty of people choose to go to hell and pray they do so. Lots of Satan worshipers riddle the streets of America.
Riddle the streets? They have been a tiny minority all along. Some of them (the Anton LaVey variety) don't even really worship Satan.
Even if true, that hardly disproves my point. Most people would not want to suffer for eternity if they actually believe in a literal hell as imagined by the likes of Dante. Quite a lot of fundamentalist Christians are driven by guilt and fear of the sort engendered by films such as The Burning Hell (1974) which I recall being promoted at some churches back in the day. The ones who aren't, and believe in this pernicious doctrine, are clearly smug about it because they are not losing any sleep over the fate of their unbelieving relatives. No, they are looking forward to enjoying eternal bliss while those folks burn.
The purpose of punishment is (or should be) rehabilitation. A penalty of maximum suffering forever does not achieve that end. Some people (perennially, Hitler, for instance) arguably should suffer something like that for particularly heinous sins of epic consequence, but most people are guilty of little more than being human and imperfect. Eternal torment is simply petty vindictiveness for the vast majority of humanity. You have to wonder about people who sign on for a concept of god like that one.
The purpose of punishment is (or should be) rehabilitation. A penalty of maximum suffering forever does not achieve that end. Some people (perennially, Hitler, for instance) arguably should suffer something like that for particularly heinous sins of epic consequence, but most people are guilty of little more than being human and imperfect. Eternal torment is simply petty vindictiveness for the vast majority of humanity. You have to wonder about people who sign on for a concept of god like that one.
This quandary was a hot topic with universalists on the theme of a rehabilitation hell. It means that even Hitler gets into the pearly gates eventually. No one knows what he did before offing himself and as the theists all like to infer a deathbed conversion can make a difference; if Hitler said a sinner's prayer, confessed his sins, being a christian, he is now in heaven and the ~6M Jews he slaughtered are in hell.
I've been taught to look at it this way. God doesn't send us to hell, our free will sends us there. Galations 6:7b for whatsoever a man soweth that shall he also reap. Romans 3:10 there is none righteous, no not one.
God is loving, yet God is equally just. None of us deserve eternity with Him. In His eyes there is none righteous, no not one. Our sin separates us from Him. Yet, He is not some despot sitting on a throne of gold taking pleasure in seeing us burn. "Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should turn from his ways and live?" Ezekiel 18:23. I'm paraphrasing three verses when I say God wishes all to turn from their ways, that none should perish, but all be saved and come to the knowledge of truth.
God's is not only all loving and equally just but He is also merciful. His mercy culminated when he gave His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to die on the cross to take away the sins of the entire world. His perfect love and His perfect justice were freely given so all could live.
Yes, we have a free will. We can reject Christ and live with the consequence of God's justice. Or, we can choose to accept him and have eternal life in God's love. Your choice.
Well.....my choice-less, free will friends. After reading most of the responses, I find it comical, that pretty much, you all have exercised your free will.
How can that be possible? If God gave us the ability to choose and some chose not to believe in Him, is that OK with Him?
Obviously, it is, because many of you have not been struct down with a bolt of lightening.
Had you understood the divine message how God loved His creation so much that He gave His only Son for it.
That includes, every living soul ever born in the flesh.
Unfortunately, not choosing to honor God with one's heart, falls short of His blessings and incurs consequences at our own pearl. That my friends, can be hell.
It falls under the rule: what we sow....that shall we reap., apply's to everybody without discrimination.
I've been taught to look at it this way. God doesn't send us to hell, our free will sends us there. Galations 6:7b for whatsoever a man soweth that shall he also reap. Romans 3:10 there is none righteous, no not one.
First off, you have to prove hell exists. It does not. Hell is a mistranslation of 4 words.
Sheol, Gehenna, Hades and Tartarus. Sheol and Hades are similar in that they refer either to the grave or realm of the dead. Hades is also a Greek mythology god. Tartaus is also from Greek mythology and Gehenna, the hell Jesus allegedly spoke of is also known as the valley of Hinnom and was a rubbish dump outside of Jerusalem. This is what it looks like today Note, there are no more fires or pyres burning.
Quote:
God is loving, yet God is equally just. None of us deserve eternity with Him. In His eyes there is none righteous, no not one. Our sin separates us from Him. Yet, He is not some despot sitting on a throne of gold taking pleasure in seeing us burn. "Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should turn from his ways and live?" Ezekiel 18:23. I'm paraphrasing three verses when I say God wishes all to turn from their ways, that none should perish, but all be saved and come to the knowledge of truth.
God's is not only all loving and equally just but He is also merciful. His mercy culminated when he gave His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to die on the cross to take away the sins of the entire world. His perfect love and His perfect justice were freely given so all could live.
Yes, we have a free will. We can reject Christ and live with the consequence of God's justice. Or, we can choose to accept him and have eternal life in God's love. Your choice.
Free will is the lamest apologetic out there. Free will is an illusion and does not even exist in the secular sense.
Seeing that you can only cite the bible, it is safe to conclude that heaven nor hell exists outside of your book of fables.
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