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Christian: Is that wrong?
Atheist: Yes!
Christian: Why?
Atheist: Because I said so! It's just wrong!
Christian: Why?
Atheist: Because it is!
Christian: Why?
Atheist: Err....umm.....You're stupid!
Seems more like the Christian logic:
Atheist: Is that wrong?
Christian: Yes!
Atheist: Why?
Christian: Because God said so! So it's wrong!
Atheist: Why?
Christian: Because God says so - he's God Da!
Atheist: Why?
Christian: Err...umm...You're blind and can't understand the things of God - you're going to hell!
Everyone's a victim these days. You asked for an opinion, that's what you got. If you don't want "religious" opinions, you might not want to make a thread on the general "religious" forums. Furthermore, nothing I said was "colder than ice". From what I gathered in your post, you already decided in your mind that God was the enemy before contemplating other ideas. So what was I supposed to say to you? I can't change your mind. You choose what you believe. And I say it again. If you think God is not good, you have no idea who Satan is or what he's capable of. There's a reason good and evil exist. You might want to research where those things started.
Atheist: Is that wrong?
Christian: Yes!
Atheist: Why?
Christian: Because God said so! So it's wrong!
Atheist: Why?
Christian: Because God says so - he's God Da!
Atheist: Why?
Christian: Err...umm...You're blind and can't understand the things of God - you're going to hell!
Can anyone say Euthyphro?
The difference is, of course, is that we have an actual authority that can tell us what is and isn't wrong. You? You have your personal preferences---and that can change from person to person. So if murder is wrong for you? Great. It may not be for another...so you really have no basis on which to declare something right or wrong.
The difference is, of course, is that we have an actual authority that can tell us what is and isn't wrong. You? You have your personal preferences---and that can change from person to person. So if murder is wrong for you? Great. It may not be for another...so you really have no basis on which to declare something right or wrong.
And you have free choice to go against that authority.
Just as we have free choice to go against our own thoughts of what is right or wrong.
The difference is, of course, is that we have an actual authority that can tell us what is and isn't wrong. You? You have your personal preferences---and that can change from person to person. So if murder is wrong for you? Great. It may not be for another...so you really have no basis on which to declare something right or wrong.
If we have "no basis" to "declare" something right or wrong then neither does anyone, including you. Your basis is an asserted / alleged authority for whom you have no proof. Mine is my own free agency tempered by respect for the rights and needs of other free agencies. At least I can demonstrate that I and my fellow humans exist. No one has to accept a dogma that we exist on faith. That is far more of a basis than you claim to have.
The irony is that your morality comes exactly where mine comes from, but you insist on an invented back-story for it rather than owning it as your own.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
The difference is, of course, is that we have an actual authority that can tell us what is and isn't wrong. You? You have your personal preferences---and that can change from person to person. So if murder is wrong for you? Great. It may not be for another...so you really have no basis on which to declare something right or wrong.
So you you feel that the directions laid down by some wandering, superstitious and ignorant desert tribe thousands of tears ago is a basis of your moral understanding?
If we have "no basis" to "declare" something right or wrong then neither does anyone, including you. Your basis is an asserted / alleged authority for whom you have no proof. Mine is my own free agency tempered by respect for the rights and needs of other free agencies. At least I can demonstrate that I and my fellow humans exist. No one has to accept a dogma that we exist on faith. That is far more of a basis than you claim to have.
The irony is that your morality comes exactly where mine comes from, but you insist on an invented back-story for it rather than owning it as your own.
If I take a lump of clay and make a pot...I have the right to declare that good--or bad. I can destroy it if I want to. The clay pot has no authority. Likewise, God made the universe--he has the authority.
So you you feel that the directions laid down by some wandering, superstitious and ignorant desert tribe thousands of tears ago is a basis of your moral understanding?
No. I believe that God has determined right or wrong, not some silly little atheist living in the 21st Century.
If I take a lump of clay and make a pot...I have the right to declare that good--or bad. I can destroy it if I want to. The clay pot has no authority. Likewise, God made the universe--he has the authority.
Which proves the point I just made. "God made the universe" is a backstory. It is an assertion. It is not even a hypothesis.
In addition, even granting you that for the sake of argument, were I so inclined, a clay pot vs a sentient being is a false equivalency. Clay pots don't have feelings, sensibilities, hopes, dreams or aspirations, so the ethics of discarding them is quite different from the ethics of discarding sentient beings. A sentient being may not have the power to do anything about the existence or conditions imposed upon it, but it certainly has the right to decide if it is suffering or not, and a benevolent god would then be bound by its very benevolence to find any suffering an indictment of its own benevolence.
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