Argument is war; thus forum becomes battle ground.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by ParkTwain

Persons or groups who choose to EMPHASIZE THE DIFFERENCES between people should be shunned if not ostracized; they are impeding the improvement of the human condition.

Why?
It is a fact that men differ from women, but it doesn't mean that they can't be equals. Next thing you'll try to ban me because I keep insisting that a circle is not a square.
I am not you, nor do I want to be.
Should I be ostracized because I only want to be myself?

[ParkTwain]

Male/female differences are not what I'm talking about. There are many kinds of differences that people insist on talking about that are basically superficial and end up being merely a means for politically ambitious persons to develop their own following to stroke their own egos. (Beware of following a leader who just *has* to be the leader; the person probably has an ego-related personality disorder.)

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by ParkTwain

There are many kinds of differences that people insist on talking about that are basically superficial and end up being merely a means for politically ambitious persons to develop their own following to stroke their own egos.

True.
But in order to be considered equal, there has to be a difference. Otherwise there is no need for insisting that people are equal.

But I agree with you that those leaders who proclaim that all men are created equal and some are created more equal than others, should be banned for life from positions of (political) influence.

[Tek_Freek]

Originally Posted by SmerkyGrl

I have to disagree. The truth is never the first casualty. Rather, the first insult is the first casualty in my opinion.

One can present the truth in many ways: civilly or in the manner of an uneducated, rowdy imbecile.

For instance, you can state "There is a God. I'm sorry you don't believe it but there is and in time you will realize this"

Or you can state, as some people have so gracefully put, "All atheists are uneducated and they are only trying to hide from their insecurities because they're afraid THEIR LIFE WILL BE NOTHING once they realize God exists and they were wrong. "

I am inclined to think the first method is much more effective, less inflammatory, and resembles a valid, perhaps even truthful argument from someone who values intellectual discourse.

And you will learn, eventually, that both statements are egocentric and patently false.

[yhwhshalomjr]

Originally Posted by coberst

Argument is war; thus forum becomes battle ground.

It seems to me that the forum members who participate in a thread approach the experience invigorated with much the same attitude as does a boxer entering the ring or a soldier going into battle.

Metaphor entailments (to transmit or to accompany) we live by:
He attacked my argument.
I have never beaten this guy in an argument.
If you do not agree with my statement then take your best shot.
I shot down each of his arguments.

We approach a forum response much like we approach a physical contest. We have a gut feeling about some things because our sense of correctness comes from our bodies. Our “gut feeling” often informs us as to the ‘correctness’ of some phenomenon. This gut feeling is an attitude; it is one of many types of attitudes. What can we say about this attitude, this gut feeling?

“Metaphors we live by”, a book about cognitive science coauthored by Lakoff and Johnson, says a great deal about this attitude. Conceptual metaphor theory, the underlying theory of cognitive science contained in this book, explains how our knowledge is ‘grounded’ in the precise manner in which we optimally interact with the world.

“The essence of metaphor is understanding one kind of thing in terms of another…The metaphor is not merely in the words we use—it is in the very concept of an argument. The language of argument is not poetic, fanciful, or rhetorical: it is literal. We talk about arguments that way because we conceive of them in that way—and we act according to the way we conceive of things.”—Lakoff and Johnson

Let us say that in early childhood I had my first fight with my brother. There was hitting, shoving, crying, screaming, and anger. Neural structure was placed in a mental space that contained the characteristics of this first combat, this was combat #1. Six months later I have a fight with the neighbor kid and we do all the routine thing kids do when fighting.

This is where metaphor theory does its thing. This theory proposes that the characteristics contained in the mental space, combat #1, are automatically mapped into the mental space that is becoming combat #2. The contents of combat #1 become a primary metaphor and the characteristics form the fundamental structure of mental space combat #2.

This example applies to all the experiences a person has. The primary experience is structured into a mental space and thereafter when a similar experience is happening the primary experience becomes the primary metaphor for the next like experience. This primary metaphor becomes the foundation for a concept whether the concept is concrete experience or abstract experience.

What I am saying is that for some reason the Internet discussion forum member considers engaging in a forum thread is a competition, it is a combat, and the primary combat metaphor is mapped into the mental space of this forum experience and thus the forum experience takes on the combat type experience. It seems to that is why lots of forum activity gets very combative.

Is it any wonder that the adrenalin starts pumping as soon as we start reading the responses to our post?

Do you feel like you are in a battle with me after reading my claims?

Is this why most replies are negative?

No;
Because IMHO, you're speaking the truth as I see it. until we are honest with ourselves in acknowledging our shortcomings; then our growth is stunted and we remain in a stagnated state".
I hope to grow from , what you've shared. posting on a this forum with intentions to engage in keyboard (LOL)combat., was not my primary motive;
But this something worth considering.
I've always wondered what the "Forum Bullies" were like in real life outside of cyberspace though. Are they road ragers", murderers, helpless people, angry, lonely. bitter; bored, sociopaths; psychopaths???or just gentle and harmless?? . I mean if we all met one another in a common place, face to face' what type of experience would this be.................Combat??
Good Post( Excellent )

[Tek_Freek]

Originally Posted by yhwhshalomjr

No;
Because IMHO, you're speaking the truth as I see it. until we are honest with ourselves in acknowledging our shortcomings; then our growth is stunted and we remain in a stagnated state".
I hope to grow from , what you've shared. posting on a this forum with intentions to engage in keyboard (LOL)combat., was not my primary motive;
But this something worth considering.
I've always wondered what the "Forum Bullies" were like in real life outside of cyberspace though. Are they road ragers", murderers, helpless people, angry, lonely. bitter; bored, sociopaths; psychopaths???or just gentle and harmless?? . I mean if we all met one another in a common place, face to face' what type of experience would this be.................Combat??
Good Post( Excellent )

I think a long and interesting discussion would ensue, to the benefit of us all.

[coberst]

Originally Posted by SmerkyGrl

I don't think argument is war at all. And neither are most of these threads arguments (they only are when they descend into incivility...like when either side begins calling the other side names). I'd say most of these threads are part of intellectual discourse, exploring the depths of religion, belief, and philosophy. Such things are what great and enlightened minds are made of, even if those minds might not agree with each other. Through sharing of ideas, we reach a greater truth.

You are correct. There are many attitudes toward argumentation. I do however think that the common view is that if we are having an argument we are engaged in a verbal altercation. If I tell some one that I had an argument with Dave most people will think hat we ‘had words’.

[coberst]

Originally Posted by yhwhshalomjr

No;
Because IMHO, you're speaking the truth as I see it. until we are honest with ourselves in acknowledging our shortcomings; then our growth is stunted and we remain in a stagnated state".
I hope to grow from , what you've shared. posting on a this forum with intentions to engage in keyboard (LOL)combat., was not my primary motive;
But this something worth considering.
I've always wondered what the "Forum Bullies" were like in real life outside of cyberspace though. Are they road ragers", murderers, helpless people, angry, lonely. bitter; bored, sociopaths; psychopaths???or just gentle and harmless?? . I mean if we all met one another in a common place, face to face' what type of experience would this be.................Combat??
Good Post( Excellent )

The "Forum Bullies" on the outside are ideologues. They are people informed by a group psychology.

Freud informs us the reason for this form of behavior is the tendency for humans to be suggestible and influenced by a psychic form of transference.

What do the following entities have in common: fascism, capitalism, communism, political parties, and religions? They all have a common characteristic that can be called “group mind”.

What is striking is that members of these entities often undergo a major change in behavior just by being members of such entities. Under certain conditions individuals who become members of these groups behave differently than they would as individuals. These individuals acquire the characteristics of a ‘psychological group’.

What is the nature of the ‘group mind’, i.e. the mental changes such individuals undergo as a result of becoming a group?

A bond develops much like cells which constitute a living body—group mind is more of an unconscious than a conscious force—there are motives for action that elude conscious attention—distinctiveness and individuality become group behavior based upon unconscious motives—there develops a sentiment of invincible power, anonymous and irresponsible attitudes--repressions of unconscious forces under normal situations are ignored—conscience which results from social anxiety disappear.

Contagion sets in—hypnotic order becomes prevalent—individuals sacrifice personal interest for the group interest.

Suggestibility, of which contagion is a symptom, leads to the lose of conscious personality—the individual follows suggestions for actions totally contradictory to person conscience—hypnotic like fascination sets in—will and discernment vanishes—direction is taken from the leader in an hypnotic like manner—the conscious personality disappears.

“Moreover, by the mere fact that he forms part of an organized group, a man descends several rungs in the ladder of civilization.” Isolated, he may be a cultivated individual; in a crowd, he is a barbarian—a creature acting by instinct. “He possesses the spontaneity, the violence, the ferocity, and also the enthusiasm and heroism of primitive beings.”

There is a lowering of intellectual ability “pointing to its similarity with the mental life of primitive people and of children…A group is credulous and easily influenced”—the improbable seldom exists—they think in images—feelings are very simple and exaggerated—the group knows neither doubt nor uncertainty—extremes are prevalent, antipathy becomes hate and suspicion becomes certainty.

Force is king—force is respected and obeyed without question—kindness is weakness—tradition is triumphant—words have a magical power—supernatural powers are easily accepted—groups never thirst for truth, they demand illusions—the unreal receives precedence over the real—the group is an obedient herd—prestige is a source for domination, however it “is also dependent upon success, and is lost in the event of failure”.

Psychology is a domain of knowledge that is complex and filled with concepts that are completely unfamiliar to the vast majority of our population. But Psychology provides us with an insight into why humans do what they do that no other domain of knowledge can provide.

[Tricky D]

Good post.
Too bad I can't rep you.