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My hunch would be once again that if you start with a mind that is receptive to ideas of god, then you will see god whatever the case. I don't have such a mind.
This is true of many things actually, but is especially so of religions.
One common example I give is that of the 23ists. These are people who think there is some master mind behind society and the evidence of this is seen in the idea that the number 23 shows up everywhere.
There is no evidence of this.
However if you START from a perspective that it is true, likely or credible and you intentionally go looking for 23 everywhere you will find it. A lot. Almost everywhere. This would seem to validate the 23ists claims.
Alas for them the same thing works for every number you try it with. Prime numbers or small numbers are better but every number works to some degree.
Confirmation bias is a powerful thing and when people who feel there is a god, or that some god visited them while they were meditating, sleeping, dreaming, or desperately seeking such a meeting.... they are all too willing to proceed on the idea the premise substantiates itself. Hence the continuous nonsense such people spew in support of their god view.
Do humans, as you say, "see what they look for"? Yes, a lot. But we have also developed methodologies that have proven themselves highly useful in catering for that fact and in many cases nullifying it. Theists try to brush over this fact acting like one world view is as good as another and we are all seeing the same evidence but interpreting it a different way. This is a false equivalence and one methodology (simply believing things that are unsubstantiated and fed with confirmation bias) is demonstrably worse that others (such as the scientific method and removing in all ways possible the effect of human limitation and bias).
While it would be foolish to consider the latter methodology perfect by any degree, it has many flaws as does anything man made, we should brush aside with a mere guffaw any suggestion that there is an equal equivalence between them either.
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Originally Posted by daylux
You choose to believe and then God takes over from there.
Speak for yourself. As I said earlier in the thread I simply am not capable of choosing to believe something. There is either compelling reasons up front to believer the idea there is a god, or there is not. Seemingly the answer is: There is not.
So I can not simply choose to believe it regardless on a whim. Perhaps your credulity is so labile you can simply flick it like a switch in whatever direction you see fit. I simply do not have that capability.
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Originally Posted by allenk893
Not sure why I'm even wasting my time responding to this thread because I've said it a million times. Everything in life is a choice.
You have said it numerous times yes, and it has not ceased to be false yet. You do know that repeating a falsehood does not make it more true right?
But of course every time I have corrected you on this willful error above, you have simply run away.
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Originally Posted by allenk893
God says he gives everyone the choice and he sends absolutely NO ONE to Hell. They send themselves because they chose out of their own will to be separated from him for all eternity.
Baloney from you here.
That has always been a bit unconvincing to me when theists tell me that the idea of hell is not threatening, but they have a choice to make and that choice has consequences.
To me it just brings up the image of a mugger with a knife saying "I am not threatening you with this knife at all.... no no not at all.... but you have a choice to give me all your money now.... and if you choose wrongly then you choose to be impaled on this knife multiple times".
At the end of the day everything from hell to the more dilute sounding "Gods Justice" are just ways to emotionally cajole people into accepting an otherwise _entirely_ unsubstantiated set of claims. Just one unsubstantiated assertion designed to bolster the credibility of another.
I am just relieved there is literally no substantiation to think this heinous nonsense is actually true in any way.
You have said it numerous times yes, and it has not ceased to be false yet. You do know that repeating a falsehood does not make it more true right?
But of course every time I have corrected you on this willful error above, you have simply run away.
No, I actually ignore you. I don't have time to argue back and forth with someone that doesn't believe. I've been on this forum for 5 years. I know the routine and have dealt with many others before you that have came and gone. You'll never believe no matter what unless you choose to do so out of your own will. Second, everything I said was 100% truth. You choosing to deny it has absolutely zero effect on that truth.
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I am just relieved there is literally no substantiation to think this heinous nonsense is actually true in any way.
And that is your choice to believe that. Have a nice day.
What are these consequences? Hell? I think the onus is on you to first prove that such a place exists.
She did not go to heaven and if this anecdotal story constitutes evidence in your world, I can understand how easily you are duped.
So what prevents the angels from rebelling again if they have free will?
No this is your imagination (and hers) make believe world. These places do not exist and if you ever bothered to actually study the bible, you would know the words HELL and SATAN are mistranslations that alter the whole meaning of the verses. Heaven and hell are concepts adopted and adapted by christianity from earlier pagan roots.
It is pretty clear your belief is solely based on Pascal's wager.
If said belief is based on Pascal's wager, I would say that isn't actual belief, and you are right, that sounds like what he is saying. I just don't see how people think it's a choice. I can't make my brain believe something. I guess I could delude myself into thinking anything, but again, is that really belief?
No, I actually ignore you. I don't have time to argue back and forth with someone that doesn't believe. I've been on this forum for 5 years. I know the routine and have dealt with many others before you that have came and gone. You'll never believe no matter what unless you choose to do so out of your own will. Second, everything I said was 100% truth. You choosing to deny it has absolutely zero effect on that truth.
And that is your choice to believe that. Have a nice day.
And you will never use common sense to think for yourself. Guess that makes you even.
It is pretty clear your belief is solely based on Pascal's wager.
Pascal's wager has nothing to do with what I said. My beliefs are crystal clear. The choice is yours to make where you go. And like she said, God sends no one anywhere. At death, who you belong to, comes for you. Period.
Not sure why I'm even wasting my time responding to this thread because I've said it a million times. Everything in life is a choice.
Maybe some people can choose to believe in something regardless of the facts, but that's not true of everyone.
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The problem is most non-believers have made their choice and then refuse to accept responsibility and the consequences that come with that choice.
Do you have any evidence of real consequences of disbelief? Again, remember that not everyone is like you and can choose to believe in stuff for no good reason.
Again, remember that not everyone is like you and can choose to believe in stuff for no good reason.
I doubt if he is really like this. I'm guessing he couldn't just believe that magic elves are real. He could say there are real. And act in a way that represent this. But does he really believe they are real simply because he wanted to take up that position? My guess is no.
I doubt if he is really like this. I'm guessing he couldn't just believe that magic elves are real. He could say there are real. And act in a way that represent this. But does he really believe they are real simply because he wanted to take up that position? My guess is no.
Yes, exactly. You can SAY anything you want, but that doesn't mean you believe it. You can't force yourself to believe something simply by saying you believe it. Some people can probably delude themselves into believing something, but I would be willing to bet they are very few.
Pascal's wager has nothing to do with what I said. My beliefs are crystal clear. The choice is yours to make where you go. And like she said, God sends no one anywhere. At death, who you belong to, comes for you. Period.
Au contraire, it is EXACTLY the motivation for belief. You are scared of hell so you choose to believe to avoid that.
The problem is obvious that you have not dug any deeper into the religion you choose to follow, its origins and indeed the sacred book associated with it. You look for any anecdotal evidence to support your views and that is called confirmation bias.
From your previous post, your hell and satan came out pretty strong as the reason.
Lets start with satan shall we?
The word was derived from the Hebrew word pronounced phonetically as sawtawn or sawtan. The meaning of this word is simply adversary and in no way suggests some fallen archangel that rebelled in heaven. That tale comes straight out of Greek mythology.
Hell is a mistranslation of 4 words.
Sheol - realm of the dead or simply the grave. (OT verses)
Gehenna - Jesus' hell aka the valley of Hinnom where folk allegedly sacrificed (or dedicated) children to Baal, a rubbish dump that allegedly existed outside Jerusalem at the time of the alleged Jesus and is now a grassy park. I guess them eternal fires were not so eternal after all.
Hades - also the realm of the dead or underworld and also directly out of Greek mythology down to the fella's name Hades who runs this place.
Tartarus - is a mythical place reserved for the devil and his angels and is also from Greek mythology.
He, satan, is supposed to be locked up there right now yet your ilk so often suggest he is a roaring lion seeking whom he can devour.
I am sure you do not believe in the Greek Pantheon of gods? Why then believe in Hades? I find that really strange.
Jesus' hell Gehenna, the eternal fires have long since gone out. You can actually go and visit this hell and return unscathed.
No, I actually ignore you. I don't have time to argue back and forth with someone that doesn't believe.
Run away, ignore, same thing from my view. Clearly not true given you are now replying to me though.
The fact is that when you declare "Everything in life is a choice" you are simply wrong. Try telling a person with cancer that they choice to get it. Try and tell the rape victim that they choice to get raped. Try and tell the person who lost his job because the company went bankrupt that he choice to become unemployed.
No, not everything in life is a choice. At all.
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Originally Posted by allenk893
You'll never believe no matter what unless you choose to do so out of your own will.
Which is simply wrong as I can not simply choose to believe. There is either compelling substantiation which causes me to believe. Or there is not. There is no evidence, argument, data or reasoning on offer to suggest there is a god. Much less so from you. Therefore I can not simply choose to believe there is on.
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Originally Posted by allenk893
Second, everything I said was 100% truth.
You say you ignore me yet you are replying to me.
You say there is a god but there is not a single reason to think there is.
You say everything in life is a choice when it is not.
You say people choose to go to hell when there is no reason to think there even is such a place.
So no, what you say is not 100% true. In fact so far it appears everything you say is 100% false. Egregiously so. Especially the veiled non-committal hell threat which you are trying to paint as a non threat.
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I guess Jesus was wrong...
